Brett Allen (00:00)

Hi, Brett Allen here, host of the Marketing 32 show where I connect with leading dentists and influencers and industry experts as always to uncover the latest and greatest in dentistry to help your practice grow and thrive. This episode is brought to you by our team here at Marketing 32. We’re the only dental marketing team that I know of with a performance guarantee that if you’re not growing, you don’t pay us. We truly are invested in your growth. If you need help with growing your practice, let us know at Marketing 32.com. We can have a quick call.

See if we’d be a great fit to work together. Quick shout out to Dat Nguyen. Recently had him on the show, talked to all about mindset and visualization and law of attraction, all of these things that are connected to the universe. If that’s your thing, it was a very fascinating interview. Check that episode out. Today. I’m excited to have a new friend of mine, Fred Joyle. He’s as his reputation precedes him. You guys know him in the industry. He is the co-founder of 1-800-Dentist.

and also the author of three bestselling books, including Everything is Marketing and Becoming Remarkable. Excuse me, Becoming Remarkable. I was like, let’s tie that in. He is an international keynote speaker and a very selective business advisor. His humble brags are he once lost 250,000 on Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader? And he also once beat Sir Richard Branson in chess.

Fred Joyal (01:08)

Remarkable wouldn’t be bad either.

Brett Allen (01:28)

Fred, grateful to have you on the show. This will be a fun conversation today.

Fred Joyal (01:32)

Yeah, Brett, to be here.

Brett Allen (01:34)

Yeah, I mean, you dropped a bunch there in the bio. We could just go down the rabbit hole and all those stories. ⁓ But before we kind of get go anywhere, how did you get into dentistry? What’s your story? Why dentistry? And yeah, tell us that.

Fred Joyal (01:48)

So

my real business life began in the advertising world. I was a copywriter and then briefly a creative director. And a friend of mine had the 800 dentist phone number that he had gotten when 800 numbers first came out way back in 79. And he had it ringing to his house. ⁓ he saw me working in advertising. He said, I think you could turn this into a business.

Brett Allen (02:09)

wow.

Fred Joyal (02:17)

Uh, and so I was young and naive and thought I could do something. And I, another friend of mine, Gary St. Dennis was a stockbroker and he says, I’m so tired of losing people’s money so that I can get rich. says, I can’t, my soul is disappearing here. Uh, and so we both took a shot and, you know, found 18 dentists to go along with it. had radio spots that we were running and a little call center.

where we would answer the 800 number and refer to these doctors. And it worked. We get 50 phone calls the first day. And we went, wow, this is something here. Because you never know when you start a business. And then for three years, we didn’t know if it was going to be profitable because we just kept dumping money into the advertising and signing up more dentists and adding more cities until, you know, by the time it was…

Brett Allen (02:56)

Wow.

You growth, yeah, reinvesting.

Fred Joyal (03:13)

1995, we had almost 4,000 doctors on board all across the country, you know, in the top 40 markets around the country. ⁓ And it still exists in some minor form. Gary and I sold it about eight years ago as Google was eating us. ⁓ yeah, but it was great. along the way, I started to disseminate all of this knowledge about

Brett Allen (03:23)

Wow.

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (03:43)

advertising and marketing and everything I had learned from great dentists who had succeeded with 800 dentists and then all of the millions of phone calls we had more information about what people were looking for in a dentist than anybody else had ever aggregated. Yeah and you know what they liked, what they didn’t like, what they complained about, what scared them and what

Brett Allen (04:02)

The data, yeah.

Fred Joyal (04:10)

made them attracted to a practice, made them loyal to a practice. So that’s when I wrote, everything is marketing. And then eventually that as the digital world came on and, and, ⁓ online reviews and all of that stuff came on, I wrote becoming remarkable, which the subtitle is how to create a practice. Everyone talks about, because at that point when they talked, they did it digitally and it lasted forever and was searchable and likable and undeletable, you know? So.

Brett Allen (04:37)

Right. Yeah.

Fascinating. So everything is marketing. So you took what you learned from 1-800-Dennis and came out with this book. Tell us some things that are in the book. What’s the concept? Everything is marketing. We were talking about this at Dicama recently, but for our listeners, how do you explain that?

Fred Joyal (05:00)

So what I tell people is if you understand the title really well and just adapt it, you don’t have to read the book. But it’s the book is about explaining how you apply this concept that everything that the patient experiences either increases case acceptance or decreases it. It either increases loyalty and the value of your dentistry or decreases it. Nothing is neutral to the patient.

Everything they see, touch, taste, hear and smell from starting with your ad or your website to the phone call to walking in the practice to what it smells like, to what the lighting is, to what anybody says to them and how you present and then what’s the aftercare? Is there an evening check-in call? I mean, we broke down all of these things and said,

Marketing is much more important than the advertising. Advertising will get them to the door. Marketing is what turns them into an accepting patient if it’s done right. And so that’s, like I said, don’t waste, if you don’t answer the phone well, for example, at the front desk, don’t waste your money on advertising because that’s what you’re doing. You might as well set fire with it. least it would generate heat in the practice. So you’d have that going for you. But otherwise,

Brett Allen (06:14)

Right.

Burning money. Yeah.

You

Fred Joyal (06:26)

you know, get these things tight and then spend money on advertising. And it, know, and it expanded over time to what’s your website, what’s your social media, how are you getting your uniqueness out there? But that was the whole premise of it. And people still buy the book. The book is 15 years old. I’m actually in January, I will be releasing, everything is still marketing.

Brett Allen (06:40)

Right.

Fred Joyal (06:55)

⁓ which is the seriously updated version of it because a lot’s changed. I think there’s MySpace in the first edition of everything is marketing. So, so 2010.

Brett Allen (06:55)

Okay, cool.

Yeah. wow. When did that book come out? When did that?

Okay, yeah, a lot’s changed since then. Now you got AI, you got…

Fred Joyal (07:15)

Yeah. And, when I updated

it four times, I revised it four times. And then finally, six years later, I wrote becoming remarkable because I was like, I gotta, I gotta put a different book out. ⁓ but the people still, ⁓ you know, I, at, at Dykema, I must’ve run into 10 people that said they knew me because of the book. And one guy, said, I just wanted to tell you everything is marketing.

Brett Allen (07:29)

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (07:42)

He says, I’ve made millions off of what’s in that book because he just applied it. just, said, I understood for the first time what I was trying to do and what I was not doing well and how I could fix it in, in, presenting my practice to my patient base. You know, cause everybody thinks, if I get great clinical skills, that’s all I need. It’s, it’s like a tiny fraction of what a patient appreciates. Yeah.

Brett Allen (08:08)

No, Yeah.

When it comes to business management and managing a team, managing an office, that’s non-clinical. All of this patient experience, like you said, what they’re hearing, how they’re presented treatment, all of that is huge. So there’s so much nuance to it too. I remember when I was learning with, ⁓ Russell Brunson was a mentor of mine, founder of ClickFunnels. I was part of his… ⁓

inner circle mastermind for a number of years. This is where I met Dr. Anissa Broussard and Jamie Amos and some others in the dental industry. But ⁓ man, we would focus on the nuances in a webinar presentation of wording, tonality, ⁓ colors. ⁓ You can imagine when it comes to a patient experience and what it’s like when they come into the practice. If you’re not saying things the right way or if you don’t have ⁓ the right

The right ambiance, all of these things, like you said, it just all builds towards, are they going to say yes or no? And even better, the only type of exponential marketing is referral based. Are they going to refer their, their friends and their family? Right. ⁓ I think that’s brilliant. I, I, I need to get the book and read it and check it out.

Fred Joyal (09:29)

Yeah. And then I’ll send you the new one so you can compare and contrast. you go like, wow, he really.

Brett Allen (09:32)

Yeah. Yeah. Are you

addressing any kind of AI in the new book? Can you bring that up? That’s… Yeah.

Fred Joyal (09:39)

You have to. I

mean, it’s impacting both the clinical side of dentistry and the practice promotion side. ⁓ So what I find is that dentists are dialed into it, because it’s great. they’ve got, you know, I asked a group, one of the last lectures I did, I asked the dentist, said, okay, how many of you have the ChatGPT app on your phone?

Brett Allen (09:49)

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (10:08)

three quarters of them raised their hand. And I thought, okay, okay, this is good, because you need to just do it so that you’re not falling behind, because it’s moving faster than you.

Brett Allen (10:10)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. We, and I wonder if I’m Google, I’m nervous. I mean, they’ve got Gemini is their AI and you know, there’s a host of other AIs that compete with Chad GBT. But I think from a standpoint of like where we go to get our information and where we go to make a decision on who, who we’re going to go see for a dentist, AI is, is gradually taking over market share from Google. And, ⁓ if you’re not

playing that game of like what it takes to get to the top of chat GPT or these other AI, then your competitors are going to get more of that traffic. Now it’s a new platform. So.

Fred Joyal (11:01)

Yeah, mean, what’s happening is people are, it becomes their base search engine now. And Google is trying to capture that with the Gemini result at the top, but that only hurts everybody who is trying to advertise down below because they’ve taken the top third of the space to try to compete in the AI portion of the space.

Brett Allen (11:08)

Yep.

Right.

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (11:27)

So it’s, it’s going to be an interesting challenge. ⁓ and boy is it a moving target.

Brett Allen (11:28)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. We figured out some things. If you guys are interested in working with our team from an SEO standpoint, we figured out how to get to the top of chat GPT. There’s schema and other things that we implement in the website to make sure you’re showing up when you ask about, when a patient asks about Dennis or Dennis near them or a particular service that you offer. So, yeah. So, well, let’s move on to… ⁓

What you’re most excited about talking about at ADOM, which I’ll see you there next. ⁓ Tell us more about this next lecture topic that you’ve come out with.

Fred Joyal (12:06)

Yeah.

Yeah. So, ⁓ a few years ago, I completed a work that was, I was very passionate about, which was how to develop boldness as a life skill. ⁓ cause most people think that you’re either born bold or you’re not, and there’s no controlling it. Whereas actually it’s a learnable life skill. And I know this because I was incredibly introverted growing up and I taught myself to become bolder and bolder and bolder.

And it’s made all the difference in my life. And I want people to know that they can do it and that it’s important to do that, develop this skill to get to their dreams, to, you know, to not stack regrets in their life. Cause they went, I, am not worthy of this or, I’m afraid I’m going to fail at this or, or people will laugh at me or I’ll, I’ll be embarrassed or judged or whatever. that’s, you know, so I,

really talk about a very practical, systematic way that you build boldness like a muscle. Cause that’s really what it’s, it’s something you, if you work on it every day, what happens is you develop more confidence because you take bold action. And so, and that’s the other fallacy is people think, ⁓ I would be bolder if I were more confident. The reality is it’s the other way around.

It’s taking bold action, what I call everyday bravery, being willing to step into something that you’re uncomfortable with, you’re afraid of how it’s gonna go, and you do it anyway. And all of a sudden, you build your boldness muscle because you’re getting stronger from trying and you didn’t die, right? know, like we all, you’re like,

Brett Allen (13:57)

You gotta exercise that muscle here.

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (14:10)

if I were ever on stage doing public speaking, people say, ⁓ I would die. It’s like, nah, you really wouldn’t. And nobody would remember it for more than 30 seconds except you. You chew on that bone for the next 30 years and never go on stage. But it’s so important to understand that ⁓ the way you do it is by doing bold things when the consequences are insignificant.

Brett Allen (14:19)

Right? Right.

Right.

Fred Joyal (14:39)

Inconsequential so to speak so that the the failures are insignificant And just like when you’re exercising and you’re building a muscle. What do you what do you aim for an exercise failure? and and and Yeah, you know if you say well that was a really comfortable workout You didn’t work out you know, so ⁓ You know, we’re all when you’re doing ⁓ curls or bench press the squats

Brett Allen (14:39)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, you want to push it. Yeah.

Right. Right.

Fred Joyal (15:09)

You’re aiming for the one you can’t do, right? That’s where the most growth happens. in it, and because there’s no negative consequences to failure in workout, there’s only upside. So it’s the same thing building your boldness muscle. have all these exercises people can do where there’s no downside. Smile at five people a day. And if they don’t smile back, nothing bad happens. But what happens is you go, wow.

Brett Allen (15:15)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Fred Joyal (15:38)

That’s not a big deal. And then you just keep increasing those things that you do to expand your comfort zone, because that’s what happens. So that you’re bold when it really matters, that you don’t hesitate, you don’t stop yourself, and you don’t get a regret that’s going to gnaw at you for the rest of your life. Because that’s what I’m passionate about helping people to step up.

Brett Allen (16:01)

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (16:06)

to speak up, to take action when it really matters, because that’s when they stop themselves. They go, I’m pretty confident in this situation and that situation. I said, yeah, but when it’s crucial, you fold, you freeze, you hesitate, and the window of opportunity closes, and that nags at you forever, because you go, I should have.

Brett Allen (16:19)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (16:30)

And if you find yourself saying, I should have done this, I should have said that I should have tried that. Hey, remember that the number one thing that people say on their deathbed, and this is documented is that they, I wish I had lived a life by my own design rather than what other people expected of me. And they have all of these regrets because they weren’t bold enough.

Brett Allen (16:31)

The regret.

Mm-hmm.

They didn’t take the chance.

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (16:59)

to live their own life.

Brett Allen (17:01)

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (17:02)

And so they let somebody else design it.

Brett Allen (17:05)

So how does that,

yeah, I’m with you on that. This is profound. How do you tie this into dentistry then? How do you, what’s the tie in there?

Fred Joyal (17:15)

I mean, it doesn’t matter what your career is, it’s going to affect it. It takes boldness to ask a patient to do a video testimonial, which is the number one most powerful marketing tool ever created, is a patient video testimonial. And if you’re afraid to ask it, you’re missing on the most powerful free marketing tool.

Brett Allen (17:20)

Yeah.

Yes, the testimonial.

Yeah, right.

Fred Joyal (17:40)

They hand you in your business, Brett, they hand you a dozen patient video testimonials, you’re off to the races with that practice, right? You got gold to work with at that point.

Brett Allen (17:53)

can repurpose

them in ads, put it on the website. Yeah, yeah, that’s great.

Fred Joyal (17:57)

Yeah.

And so it takes boldness to fire that person that has been in the practice way too long and is bringing the whole atmosphere down in that practice and to stop giving yourself reasons why they get to stay, even though it’s infecting the whole practice like a deep pocket perio. ⁓ and so, it takes boldness to present big cases, which is where your best marketing comes from.

Brett Allen (18:08)

Yeah. Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (18:27)

You’re not getting new patients from your profies. You’re getting new patients from the transformational dentistry.

Brett Allen (18:30)

Right. The transformation.

Yep. 100%. Yeah.

Fred Joyal (18:36)

Those people

are your advocates. Those are your apostles out there preaching about how amazing you are and how the impact you’ve had on every aspect of their life because of what you’ve done with their smile. You gotta be able to, you know, I have friends who they can present a hundred thousand dollar case without batting an eye. And there’s other dentists who couldn’t present 10 grand, a $10,000 case with a gun to their head.

And it’s why? Because they’re not bold enough. They didn’t build up to do that. it’s an average practice versus a highly successful, highly impactful process with the majority of their patients accepting optimal care. That’s what boldness can do. And then it bleeds into the rest of your life. You’re able to talk with your spouse and

say what you expect in a relationship. You’re able to make the tough love decisions with your parenting rather than just trying to be liked by your child or protect them from all stress and difficulty which makes them the most unresilient generation in the history of mankind.

Brett Allen (19:54)

man, could, I could, we could talk about that for a while. I’ve got four daughters and parenting is quite the task lately with two of them are twins. They’re seniors in high school and, ⁓ yeah, there’s that’s, you know, parenting grows you for sure. ⁓ I love it. Yeah. This concept of boldness for sure. I, it resonates with me. ⁓ I used to have this quote back in college. I’m, I was a college athlete back in the day. ⁓

Fred Joyal (20:02)

Wow.

Brett Allen (20:23)

swam and pretty good swimmer. But, ⁓ I had this quote from, who was it? Fortune favors the bold. It was like a pirate or something. I forget, a black beard or something like that. But, ⁓ yeah, fortune favors the bold. You don’t, you don’t make any money if you don’t ask for it. You don’t, you don’t have that. Yeah.

Fred Joyal (20:44)

No, if you’re an entrepreneur

and you don’t go out and knock on doors and find yourself some clients and take some risks. mean, everything we learned at 800 Dentists, we learned by losing money, know, trying something. Well, that TV station didn’t work. That ad didn’t work. That script on the phone didn’t work. That contract didn’t work. You know, and so we had to invent everything in the business.

Brett Allen (20:50)

Yeah. Yep.

Yep.

Fred Joyal (21:13)

But what happens, the other amazing thing that happens is when you are bold, and this is what bold people learned and why they are this way, is very often there’s an unexpected result that’s way more beneficial. Like when you talked about when I was on, you smarter than a fifth grader? Everybody told me not to go for the last question because

You know, everybody backstage is like, nobody gets it. They don’t want to give away this money. So don’t go for it. I couldn’t not go for it because what, what if I, if I found out what the question was and I knew the answer, then I’d be upset with myself forever. But getting it, getting it wrong. I was okay. Cause I had tried, I took a swing and that’s the change that can happen is

Brett Allen (21:50)

You got it. Yeah. What if you make it? Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Fred Joyal (22:11)

trying and failing feels way better than not trying, because not trying, you guaranteed the loss. ⁓ And what happened is they just ran the episode endlessly because I went for the last question and I had an 800 Dennis shirt on the whole time. So we had like a million dollars of free advertising because I took a shot. So it was a hugely unexpected benefit.

Brett Allen (22:17)

At least you know the outcome. Yeah. Right. Right.

Fred Joyal (22:40)

to just being bold about, I’m gonna go for this question, because I’m a little crazy. It’s like, I can’t live with not trying. But that’s where I wanna get people to is like, be comfortable trying and failing, be comfortable being uncomfortable and not knowing how it’s gonna go. But bold people expect the unexpected. That’s kind of the paradox. Is like, I’m going in because something interesting is gonna happen. I’m going in for this, but I might get that.

Brett Allen (22:43)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, on this line of boldness, you’ve got a bold new ⁓ revolutionary healthcare solution that you’re promoting and helping get off the ground. Let’s talk about that. What is this new thing that you’ve come across?

Fred Joyal (23:27)

Yeah, because as excited as I am to get on stage and talk to dental practices about marketing and boldness in their practice, am a business coach as well and very selective, as you said, about who I bring in. have to believe that the business is profoundly better than anything that exists. And I have to like the people that are in it. so

Brett Allen (23:50)

Mmm.

Fred Joyal (23:55)

I met this biochemist about a year ago and she has developed ⁓ a non-pharmaceutical formula that prevents the buildup of calculus by balancing the oral biome. I know that it works because I’ve used it on myself. When she told me about it, went, yeah, I’ve heard this story before.

Then I started to see the science that she had and then I used it for six months. And my profi was borderline insignificant. I had no plaque on my lower arch and she said, your upper arch is like you’ve been here a month ago. And I said, wow, this really is working. And so I am a profound believer in helping this product to get out there.

⁓ and because I believe it’s a worldwide health solution because it’s not a pharmaceutical and When when you can balance somebody’s biome in their mouth the the perio beats back the the healthy bacteria take over and You know, we have all of these people who are who are losing their teeth as you know because of their

Brett Allen (24:56)

Yeah.

they have unbalanced. ⁓

Fred Joyal (25:20)

their

sugar diet because they’re the bad bacteria love sugar more than your healthy bacteria. And we feed them day and night and they’re just pumping the acid out. And what happens with this formula is it tricks the bacteria into thinking that they’re eating sugar and it really puts them on a keto diet and they stop emitting acid.

Brett Allen (25:29)

Yes.

Fred Joyal (25:47)

They stop excreting the acid that’s doing so much damage and it keeps them from colonizing because the colony doesn’t thrive. so, and all we need, I mean, that’s everything else like anything antibiotic or, you know, that kills the bacteria, kills all the bacteria, right? So the best thing about our bodies is our biome is our greatest protection.

Brett Allen (25:55)

Needs the acidic, yeah.

Kills good bacteria. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Fred Joyal (26:17)

when it can thrive, when we don’t impair it, whether it’s on our skin or in our mouths or in our gut, in a woman’s vagina. All of this stuff is about balance, because we have 20 billion healthy bacteria working for us if we can just take care of them and not send in and not arm the enemy, so to speak.

Brett Allen (26:23)

in your gut.

Yeah.

Right.

What’s, what’s the, does it have a brand? it, is it publicly available? Is it an, what’s it called?

Fred Joyal (26:49)

Yeah, so it’s being distributed by some dentists right now. ⁓ There’s a website called Daily Dental Cares with an S.com where ⁓ you can get it. It comes in mint form, it comes in a water supplement, and also in a toothpaste tablet. ⁓ The interesting thing is two years ago she launched the Petline.

Brett Allen (27:08)

Hmm.

Fred Joyal (27:15)

because it works the same way on dogs and cats. ⁓ And ⁓ it’s just a water additive in that case. But pets lose 10 to 20 % of their lifespan because of poor oral health. And a trophy on a cat or a dog, that’s like a thousand bucks. And it’s only good for a few weeks because they go right back to just like humans.

Brett Allen (27:20)

Interesting.

Foul odor. ⁓

Right, because, yeah.

Fred Joyal (27:45)

⁓ So this is the other thing that I’m on and I’m helping her find the right partners and the right investors and all of that. ⁓

Brett Allen (27:45)

Yeah.

That’s exciting. Are you?

As a non-pharmaceutical,

it can just be sold over the counter. It’s not any, I don’t know what goes into that process of like, yeah, do you have to have clinical trials, all of that?

Fred Joyal (28:05)

Right, well, it’s in the new,

which we have, but essentially it functions as a nutraceutical. ⁓ So, yeah, and the formula’s patented, of course, but it doesn’t have to go through the FDA pharmaceutical process, which can take seven years and then they deny you, ⁓ and you start over again. ⁓

Brett Allen (28:15)

Okay, like a supplement kind of.

Right, right. It takes a lot of money,

all that, yeah.

Fred Joyal (28:35)

Yeah,

and it’s it’s you’re not sure how it’s going to go. Yeah. So. ⁓

Brett Allen (28:38)

That’s fascinating. Yeah. What was the website

again? So we’ve got it for, we’ll put it in our show notes too.

Fred Joyal (28:45)

Daily dental cares with an S. Yeah.

Brett Allen (28:47)

DailyDentalCares.com. Okay, cool.

Well, we’re about out of time. I always ask everybody if you could give one golden nugget piece of advice that would have a ripple effect across all the, you know, their life or their practice, what would that one piece of advice be, Fred?

Fred Joyal (29:04)

And this is something I heard and it resonated with me so much that this I talk about it in my lectures as well because it applies so much to boldness as a life skill is the magic that you seek is in the things you avoid.

Brett Allen (29:24)

Hmm, so say no

Fred Joyal (29:27)

Just think about that. So the magic you’re looking for in your life is all in those things that you’re avoiding. It’s really interesting. Whether you want love, but you never go online to try to meet anybody. ⁓ Because, it’s all strange people on there. It’s like, yeah, so you’re avoiding it. You’ve given yourself a reason to avoid it so you don’t get love about it. ⁓

Brett Allen (29:36)

Hmm

you

Hmm.

Fred Joyal (29:56)

You’re a dentist, you’re trying to grow your practice, but you don’t want to change anything. You’re avoiding new technology, you’re avoiding bringing in a marketing professional instead of trying to figure it out yourself, because you got burned a couple of times. We’ve all been burned on all sorts of stuff. We all avoid all sorts of stuff because of something bad that happened.

Brett Allen (30:02)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Fred Joyal (30:24)

This is life. This is life. You got to, you got to step back into the ring and, and, and take an ass whipping sometimes. And, and sometimes you, you, you learn how to win, but you get stronger, you get resilient. But sometimes. Yeah. Cause a lot of times that’s where the, that’s where the magic is. And I’ve seen it happen so many times to people when they say,

Brett Allen (30:36)

Right.

You got to confront the things you’re avoiding. Yeah.

Fred Joyal (30:52)

I’m just going in. I’ll never forget this young woman who was terrified of bungee jumping and she stood on the platform for 20 minutes and afraid to jump, balling her eyes out. And she finally went. I would have bet she wasn’t going. She went and she embraced her fear. She didn’t get over her fear. She went. She leaned forward far enough to go because she knew she was avoiding it. She knew she had to conquer that.

but she came back up on the bridge after to do it again. And she said, she said, if that was so much fun, why would I ever be afraid of anything ever again? That’s how profound an effect that was the magic for her is she, she said, I, I’m avoiding this risk, this ostensible danger. Yes. I even watching 20 other people do it.

Brett Allen (31:27)

Yeah, she loved it.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Perceived. A perceived risk. Yeah.

Right, right.

Fred Joyal (31:53)

And it’s

the same thing in dentistry. You don’t have to invent the new dental practice to succeed. The way to have a successful dental practice is being done. Just like there’s ways to have a really unsuccessful practice that’s being done. But, you know, ⁓ take a look, take a hard look at what you’re avoiding and why you’re avoiding it. Maybe you want to be a public speaker.

Brett Allen (32:06)

Right, right, right.

Fred Joyal (32:20)

And you’re avoiding it because it was like, people, I don’t want people to think I’m stupid or they’re going to laugh at me or I’m going to get tongue tied or I’m going to go into a flop sweat. It’s like, so what? Do you think I was good when I started speaking? I sucked. OK, and I sucked less the next time and the next time and the next time and the next time.

Brett Allen (32:34)

Yeah.

⁓ Yeah, right. Practice makes perfect.

Yeah, for sure.

Fred Joyal (32:45)

Yeah,

and now I, you know, I can walk out in front of 5,000 people and it’s just fun. It’s all I got all the magic now, so.

Brett Allen (32:51)

Yeah. Well, I’m

excited to see you at ADOM on coming up. I don’t know if we’ll have this episode out by then, but ⁓ yeah, thank you so much, Fred. This has been an awesome conversation. A lot of value you’ve shared, a lot of great advice. ⁓ If people want to work with you, if they’re lucky enough to be that selective few that get to have Fred as their business advisor, or if they want to just learn more about you or have you come speak, where…

Where do we send them?

Fred Joyal (33:22)

So all the books are on Amazon and they’re in ⁓ Kindle and Audible and Hardcover and it’s me reading the books and FredJoyle.com, J-O-Y-A-L, ⁓ is my website. If you want to learn more about my speaking and see some, some my speaker reel and some events that I’ve done and stuff and, talk about a keynote for your businesses, that’s the best way to find me.

Brett Allen (33:48)

Great.

Great.

Fred Joyal (33:50)

And I’m

Fred Joyle everything on social media, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Allen (33:55)

I’m sure you’re not hard to find. We’ll put all of that in the show notes. Well, thank

you again, Fred, for coming on. This has been awesome.

Fred Joyal (34:02)

Brett, thank you. This has been a blast.

Brett Allen (34:05)

Yeah, until next time everybody have a great day and we’ll see you on the next episode of the Marking 32 show. Take care.