“It’s All Sandcastles”: How Dr. Anthony Do’s Journey From Burnout and Suicidal Ideation to Faith Reveals Why Dentistry’s Achievement Culture Is Killing Us
What happens when a Vietnamese-American dentist, raised by immigrant parents with the stereotypical “become a doctor or engineer” expectation, follows a path laid out by others (not by choice but by cultural programming), builds a successful multi-dentist practice in McKinney, Texas over 12 years, achieves every goal society tells him to achieve—profitability, growth, expansion, multiple associates, beautiful family, strong marriage—and then suddenly realizes he’s on an endless hamster wheel of achievement that leaves him completely empty inside? Dr. Anthony Do does exactly that, and at his lowest point, lying in bed alone in the dark with his own thoughts, he experiences intrusive thoughts about not living anymore—not because his life is objectively bad (it’s objectively good by every metric), but because he’s been chasing happiness through achievement his entire life, and the moment he achieves something, the dopamine dumps and he’s left searching for the next mountain to summit.
In this incredibly vulnerable and profound conversation, Dr. Do reveals why the dental industry’s obsession with growth, production, and achievement is creating a silent epidemic of burnout and mental health crises that nobody wants to talk about, why happiness is a fleeting emotion (not an identity), why the highest dopamine hit isn’t at the achievement point but in the anticipation leading up to it (which means you’re chasing a drug, not fulfillment), and why peace is not the absence of problems but the certainty that you will be victorious regardless of what problems come.
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Key Moments
- 02:43 – Dr. Do’s origin story: Vietnamese immigrant parents, stereotypical “be a doctor” expectation, never really chose his own path—someone always told him what to do
- 06:26 – Built practice by following others: Saw someone open practice, heard “you should do that,” opened practice; every decision based on what others suggested, not his own vision
- 14:17 – The achievement trap: Had everything (successful practice, great marriage, healthy kids, profitability)—yet felt completely empty, stuck on endless hamster wheel of summiting next mountain
- 16:28 – Happiness vs. fulfillment: Read extensively on psychology, neurobiology, and philosophy; discovered happiness is fleeting emotion (not identity), and highest dopamine is in anticipation, not achievement
- 25:02 – Rock bottom was every night: Not a dramatic moment but nightly intrusive thoughts about not living, spiraling that he couldn’t control or stop, lying in bed alone with his own mind
- 29:51 – Faith as the solution: Grew up Catholic but never applied it; when rock bottom hit, turned to rosary and prayer as tool to redirect mind away from intrusive thoughts; then read Bible and it “spoke to me”
- 32:17 – Walk by faith, not by sight: Central scripture that changed everything—stopped judging employees and situations by what he saw, started believing in people and their potential even before evidence
- 37:54 – Golden nugget: “It’s all sandcastles”: Build beautiful sandcastles with effort, sweat, tears; show them off; build ten more; eventually they all wash away and nobody remembers you were there—but that’s liberating, not nihilistic
Episode Summary
Dr. Anthony Do grew up the son of Vietnamese immigrant parents who came to America to create a new life for their children. With that came the immigrant parent mindset: “I’m going to tell you what should happen for you.” The expectation was stereotypical but powerful—be a doctor, be an engineer, achieve, succeed. As a child and teenager, Dr. Do had no concept of anything else. He didn’t choose dentistry; he was told to pursue it. But as he reflects today, he realizes that’s the story of his entire life: he was told to do something, so he did it. He became a dentist, then someone opened a practice and he thought “maybe I should do that.” Someone said “you should talk to this guy about opening a practice,” so he did. He opened his practice in McKinney, Texas, and over 12 years, he grew it into a multi-dentist operation with associates, expansion, and profitability. By every external metric, he succeeded. He had a beautiful marriage (to his high school sweetheart), two children, a thriving practice generating significant income. Everything looked perfect from the outside.
But internally, Dr. Do was dying. He reached a point where he asked himself a haunting question: “When do I stop?” Do I keep growing? Keep bringing on associates? Keep opening practices? Is there another mountain after this one? He felt trapped on an endless hamster wheel, jumping from one achievement to the next, always searching for the next goal to chase. This left him with an empty feeling inside. He started seeking answers in books—leadership books, psychology books, neurobiology of happiness, even religiosity of happiness. What he discovered through his reading was profound: happiness is not a state of being; it’s a fleeting emotion or event. It’s circumstantial. You’re not “happy” as an identity; you experience happiness as a feeling that comes and goes. More importantly, he learned through neurobiology that the highest dopamine spike isn’t at the moment of achievement but in the anticipation leading up to it. This is why a vacation is most exciting while you’re planning it—once you’re on it, the dopamine dumps and you’re searching for the next experience. The same pattern applied to his achievements: open practice (dopamine spike in anticipation), open it (dopamine dump), what’s next? He wasn’t chasing fulfillment; he was chasing a drug.
The turning point came through faith. Dr. Do grew up Catholic but went through the motions—pews on Sunday, confirmation, the whole thing—without it ever really applying to his life. But when he hit rock bottom and was crying out for relief from these intrusive thoughts, he returned to faith. He started wearing a rosary and praying. The rosary is called a “rosarian” (rose garden), and as you hold each bead, you say a prayer, walking through the rose garden. As Dr. Do prayed, he found peace—not because the problems went away, but because his mind focused on something other than the intrusive thoughts. He then started reading the Bible himself (instead of having others read it to him), and it began to speak to him. One passage that became central to his transformation was “we walk by faith, not by sight.” For his entire life, he had been operating by sight—judging employees and situations based on what he observed, making snap judgments that felt like truth. But walking by faith meant believing in people and outcomes even before he had evidence, operating from hope rather than certainty. This shift changed everything about how he led and how he thought about others. Another passage that resonated: “Blessed are those who believe but do not see”—believing without needing to see the proof first.
Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
- The Anxious Generation by Jonathon Haidt – Book on how devices and social media affect youth mental health (mentioned by Brett)
- Anthony Do Red Oak Family Dentistry Facebook: Connect with Anthony on Facebook
- Red Oak Family Dentistry: Anthony Do’s dental practice
- Last Marketing 32 Episode: Last week’s episode of The Marketing 32 Show
- Marketing 32: Performance-based dental marketing with growth guarantee
Quotable Moments:
“None of it was through my own decision. I’m Vietnamese by ethnicity. My parents came over from Vietnam. They had this mindset: I’m gonna tell you what should happen for you. So I heard I should be a doctor, and I did it.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“When I reflect on why I did things, quite frankly, it’s because someone told me. I heard this, and then I heard that, and these things sit in your unconscious mind and affect your decision-making whether you know it or not.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“I had the world at my grasp, and then suddenly I got to a point where it’s like, when do I stop? Do I just keep growing? Do I just keep bringing associates on? Do I just keep opening practices? And it left this empty feeling inside of me.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“Happiness is a state of mind. It’s fleeting, it’s an event, it’s circumstantial. It’s not like a being. If I say ‘I am happy,’ I’m not literally happy. The highest level of dopamine is not at the happiness point, but at the rising point of happiness—the anticipation.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“I was reading books of opinions, trying to find answers. Then I realized I needed to go back to the ancients—Aristotle, Socrates—because they lasted a long time and must have something to say about how to live my life.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“Everything that I thought was good was only because of my self-interest. I wouldn’t do it if it didn’t serve my own interest. And so I realized I was grasping at things, grasping at things because I felt like I deserved them.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“My most vulnerable state is in my bed when I am alone in the dark with my own thoughts. Intrusive thoughts come without permission, and you entertain them. One of those was, ‘what if I just didn’t live?’ And then I would spiral.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“My definition of peace is not no problems. Peace is in the presence of problems, you know you will always be victorious. No matter what comes—cancer, bankruptcy—I can handle it. I’m gonna be okay.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“We walk by faith, not by sight. For my entire life, I was walking by sight—judging people and situations based on what I observed. But faith means believing in people even before you have evidence.” – Dr. Anthony Do
“It’s all sandcastles. We build these beautiful sandcastles with all our might and effort. We show people what we built. But at the end of the day, they all get washed away and no one remembers you were there. But once you know it’s a sandcastle, you’re free to ask why you’re building it in the first place.” – Dr. Anthony Do
Key Action Items:
- Ask yourself: Why are you building your sandcastle? – What’s the real motivation behind your practice growth, achievement, or pursuit? Is it external validation or internal fulfillment?
- Identify the achievement treadmill you’re on – What mountain are you summiting next? What happens when you reach it? Be honest about the pattern.
- Notice the anticipation vs. achievement dopamine gap – Pay attention to whether the excitement is in planning something or in doing it. What does that tell you?
- Examine your expectations and reality – Where is the gap between what you expected your success would feel like and how you actually feel? That gap is often the source of unhappiness.
- Redefine peace for yourself – Not as the absence of problems, but as confidence that you can handle whatever comes. What problems are you afraid of that, in reality, you could handle?
Episode Sponsor:
This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32—the only dental marketing team with a performance guarantee where if you’re not growing, you don’t pay. Marketing 32 is truly invested in adding value to your practice and working with doctors they know they can over-deliver for. Marketing 32 helps you build the patient acquisition piece of that vision through strategic online presence, content creation, and growth campaigns. If you need help with marketing and growth, reach out at marketing32.com for a quick 15-minute discovery call to see if it’s a good fit.
Episode Transcript:
Brett Allen (00:23)
Hi, Brett Allen here, host of the Marketing32 show, where I connect with leading dentists, dental influencers, and industry experts to bring you guys the latest and greatest in dentistry and helping your practice to grow and thrive. This episode, as always, is brought to you by our team here at Marketing32. We’re the only dental marketing team that I know of with a performance guarantee that if you’re not growing, you don’t pay us. We truly invest in those we work with and only work with those we know we’re confident we can help grow. So if you need help with growth,
Or marketing, head over to market32.com. We’ll set up a quick call with you and set you straight if it’s a great fit for either of us. Quick shout out to Connor Ludlow, founder of Hello Annie, which is an AI coworker, phenomenal company, one of the leading forefront in the AI dentistry landscape, especially the coworking space, having somebody help you with all these tasks in the practice.
That AI can do for you. Check it out. Hello, Annie. Check out that episode with Connor Ludlow. Excited to have a new friend of mine on the show today, Dr. Anthony Do. He is a general dentist focused on keeping dentistry simple, comfortable, and convenient. He’s a practicing dentist and owner in McKinney, Texas, for 12 years in a multi-dentist practice. Outside the office, Dr. Do enjoys staying active and spending time with his wife, his high school sweetheart, and their two children.
Excited to have Doctor Do on the show. Thanks for coming on today.
Anthony (01:44)
Thanks for having me, Brett. Appreciate it.
Brett Allen (01:45)
Yeah. So I to kind of give some background for this episode, you recently posted a video in the Daniel Nacho’s Facebook community with Paul Goodman. You you opened up and were very vulnerable in sharing an aspect of our industry that I haven’t really focused on much with our podcast and our show. We focus a lot on growth and marketing. but you were you shared your story in
In this topic of dentistry that is affecting the industry and suicide and depression and stress and overload, it happens. And I think we need to share a light on it. And I think I I really enjoyed your perspective and what you had to say about it. So thank you for coming on the show. I’m excited to go deeper in that story with you. but before we get into that, tell us how why dentistry? What how did you get into dentistry? Walk us through that story.
How did you get into practice ownership? Kinda take us on that journey to start the show.
Anthony (02:43)
You know, as honestly, when I reflect on it today, you’re asking me like how I went through it. Honestly, none of it was through my own decision. When I look back at it, quite frankly.
Brett Allen (02:57)
Yeah.
Anthony (02:57)
I’m Vietnamese I’m Vietnamese by ethnicity. My parents came over from Vietnam. and so they had the kind of mindset of I’m gonna create a new life for my children, things like that. And what that came with was, hey, I’m gonna tell you what should happen for you.
Right.
Brett Allen (03:09)
Mm.
Anthony (03:10)
And so of course you stereotypical of like, you should be a doctor, you should be an engineer, and it’s like all that all that stuff. And so none of that I had no idea or any concept of anything else other than what was told to me. Right.
Brett Allen (03:22)
Yeah.
Anthony (03:23)
And so as a reflect upon that, that’s kind of why I did that, is what it honestly is. I heard something from somewhere, namely my parents, that that’s what I should do. And so that’s what I did.
And so as I did that, then slowly as I went on my journey, then it was like, Why did I start my practice? If I have to be honest with myself, someone else started their practice. And I was a and I looked at them and like, okay. And then someone said, You should do that. And I was like, I should. Okay. And then someone else came along and I started doing my practice. Like, how should I open practice? You should talk to this guy. I should talk to this guy.
And so if I
Brett Allen (03:56)
Yeah.
Anthony (03:57)
kind of just link it all together, it when when you ask me why did I do that, quite frankly, it’s because someone told me. I mean, I’m just gonna be honest with you. It’s like
Brett Allen (04:05)
Yeah.
Anthony (04:05)
I heard this and then I heard that and then I heard that, and then when you start hearing things, they it like even though you consciously don’t absorb these things, they do sit in the unconscious mind and they do affect, how do I say this, your decision making, whether you know it or not, is what it is.
It’s honestly up to your we call it your like your prefrontal cortex, right, to make sense of all this stuff. But honestly you only know what you know. And so if I have to
Brett Allen (04:28)
Yeah.
Anthony (04:29)
truly be honest with you, it’s why did I do all this? This is because someone told me. It’s Yeah.
Brett Allen (04:33)
Yeah. No, that’s fair. Yeah.
I we’re you know, we’re very influential in our youth and we’re often, you know, where we land is a result of our community, our upbringing, our parents, our you know, that those influences do guide I we just dropped off our oldest two at college in Colorado State, our twin daughters, and they’re trying to navigate that and figure out, Well, what do I want to do? And yeah, it’s yeah.
Anthony (04:58)
Yeah.
And then nowadays it’s like, well, where did you get that idea from? I saw it on Facebook, I saw it on TikTok, I saw it on Instagram. And it’s like, you
Brett Allen (05:07)
Yeah.
Anthony (05:07)
know, when when when kids start acting a certain way, you you literally say this sentence you said, Where did you get that from? Like, where did you get that
Brett Allen (05:13)
Yeah.
Anthony (05:14)
idea to do that? Right? It nothing nothing
Brett Allen (05:15)
Yeah.
Anthony (05:16)
ever nothing ever occurs out of thin air. You got it from somewhere. And so
Brett Allen (05:21)
Yeah.
Anthony (05:22)
and and and if you did it if you didn’t get it from s no, let me say this.
If you didn’t get it in that moment, something happened to you in the past collectively that kinda came together as some form of amalgamation of an idea that you would never
Brett Allen (05:32)
Yeah.
Anthony (05:33)
have but thought of if you didn’t have these past experiences. You know. Yeah.
Brett Allen (05:37)
Right. Yeah.
Anthony (05:39)
So
Brett Allen (05:39)
Fascinating philosophical concept to to think about. As yeah. Are we really
Anthony (05:44)
Yeah it
Brett Allen (05:45)
the product of our own thinking? Yeah.
Anthony (05:48)
That is true, yeah. And if you ask me why I ended up the way I ended up, is it it wasn’t until I I came out of the wilderness that I was suddenly like, gosh, this is why. This is why I am
Brett Allen (06:00)
Yeah.
Anthony (06:00)
the way I am, this is why the the reasons I do
Brett Allen (06:02)
Yeah.
Anthony (06:03)
the things I do. And so it just really helped me understand the genesis or, you know, whatever it is that started the whole thing in, you know.
Brett Allen (06:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (06:15)
So
Brett Allen (06:15)
So so dentistry, you landed in dentistry. Are you enjoying it today? Walk
us through
Anthony (06:20)
I am.
Brett Allen (06:20)
Yeah, walk us through how you opened a practice. Did you did you buy a practice? Did you start from scratch?
Anthony (06:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, my my story is probably unlike other people, in an associate so very un unhappy drove by, saw this sign, said, Hey, open, buy this buy this building or whatever it is, right? And I was like, Okay, and I didn’t really have any money at the time, but it was a trailer and I walked in and I talked to the owner, said, Hey, I’m interested. And he’s like, Well, this is the earnest money. I’m like, Well, it’s lot of money. But it was like you were in this moment of fear and didn’t know what else to do. You’re like, gosh, I I think I’m just gonna do this. I have nothing to lose. I’m kinda young, stuff like that. And so I did it.
Brett Allen (06:54)
Mm. Yeah.
Anthony (06:56)
And it’s a startup and it was a new build and everything. And they just kind of built it up from there. you know, kinda followed the the thought leaders of the time and it did certainly help me out to do what to do what I need to do and be where I’m at. and that’s kinda how it is, and just kinda grew from myself and it’s the same story. You kinda get that capacity, and you’re like, What do I do? Should I drop insurances? Should I
bring on a new doctor, that’s usually the fork in the road that people have. And so I want the bring on the new doctor thing. And then that just expanded. And then suddenly it’s like, wow, the four walls are kind of tight here. And so, well, let’s expand to the next side. And then so kind of bought that side and then now we’re just where we’re at. And it’s kind of organic. It wasn’t
Brett Allen (07:39)
That’s awesome.
Anthony (07:40)
anything forced or planned. Quite organic I would say as things have emerged. We just did it.
Brett Allen (07:46)
That’s awesome. Well let’s take a moment to dig into that a little bit. What were some big moments for you when you were dis making these decisions of opening the practice? What were some things that were influential and helpful for you? to say, okay, I wanna do this with my marketing, I wanna do this, I I wanna bring this person on as an associate. Walk us through those decisions.
Anthony (08:09)
Honestly, I had no idea. You know, if you were to ask me if I had some level of systematic way of going and vetting an associate or vetting a marketing company, it was honestly a hail mary. I was just like, I really hope this works out. You know? So I can’t say I’m really
Brett Allen (08:25)
We’re gonna try that. Hope and prayer.
Anthony (08:28)
you know, yeah, because quite frankly, I I don’t know anything about marketing. And so I trust other people just like you probably don’t know like how to do like a root canal.
Brett Allen (08:36)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anthony (08:36)
You know, you just like you
just trust the person. You know, I don’t know anything about a bridge, but I drive over it. And so I guess you can call it faith.
Brett Allen (08:41)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (08:44)
And I’m hoping that the faith will just kinda take me to a certain destination. And I’ve just been fortunate to choose the right marketing company at the time, choose
Brett Allen (08:51)
Yeah.
Anthony (08:51)
the right whatever. And it was honestly based on people telling me and going, You should do this. Again, I’m being frank again. it’s it’s it’s it’s
Brett Allen (09:01)
Jude, yeah, just being yeah. Just trusting.
Yeah. Were there were there
Anthony (09:04)
Yeah, it’s it’s all trust and
Brett Allen (09:08)
things that worked w well? Like if you can go back and say, this is a a decision I did that was a good decision? Like certain strategies or
Anthony (09:16)
a good
Brett Allen (09:17)
processes like the for growth or for hiring an associate. Do you remember
Anthony (09:22)
you know, hiring I’ll tell you a story. So I heard that I should do this to get an associate. Okay. I did like this, what do you call it, speed dating thing or something? And
Brett Allen (09:32)
Okay. Okay.
Anthony (09:33)
so I I I I put out a an ad for associate dentists and just said everything that’s happening, we’re like, we’re growing, it’s gonna be great, you should join us. And so I gathered together, I don’t know how many it was, maybe five, seven or something like that, and I brought them all to the practice and I had all my
team talked to them like one by one and then I took everyone to lunch and then it was recommended to me like this is the best practice you should do this right and so we did and and then we we we whittled it out to one person and I’m like and the team was like I love this guy I love him I love him he’s great like I like him too he’s pretty cool and then suddenly what happened the whole thing fell apart you know yeah
Brett Allen (10:12)
man. Yeah.
Anthony (10:14)
and so you’re asking me what is one thing I can recommend is
I can’t recommend anything honest to be honest.
Brett Allen (10:22)
Well maybe well maybe the process isn’t just
do you like this person? Do you d do you jive as a as a fit a cultural fit with the team? Maybe that’s not the only checkbox that you
Anthony (10:32)
Yeah.
Brett Allen (10:32)
should be considering.
Anthony (10:33)
You know what what what I I’d probably say is that so everything for me is in retrospect, right? And I I can only say if it was good enough for me, in the sense that gosh, how would I have done it differently? Now that I know better, I would probably have sat down with each doctor, had a heart-to-heart, in other words, a desire conversation, and asked them, what do you want? What do you want?
That’s the only thing. My approach was what do I want? Is what it was. I I failed to understand what they wanted. And
Brett Allen (11:09)
okay.
Anthony (11:10)
and so if I can rec it’s I I guess I guess the best way I can phrase this. I I can only recommend something from a mistake that I made. If I had to do it over, I would do it this way. It’s is how it would say it. That’s best that’s
Brett Allen (11:21)
Yeah, yeah.
Anthony (11:22)
how I would rec say my recommendations are.
Is yeah, sit down personally, and because quite frankly, I don’t know I didn’t know the nuances and aspects of the dentist I was talking to. I didn’t know
Brett Allen (11:34)
Mm.
Anthony (11:34)
his motivations, I didn’t know his children’s situation, I didn’t know his wife or family situation, I don’t know, they just
Brett Allen (11:40)
Yeah.
Anthony (11:40)
moved here. Like all that stuff that calculates into like, would you be a good associate? And what are you looking for in the future? I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. So I went through
Brett Allen (11:47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anthony (11:50)
all this crazy production.
Not even knowing what this person wanted. Like I chose them, but could I align with what they wanted? And so I find that a lot of my mistakes that I ever make in my life are I just don’t sit down eye to eye with the person, have a heart to heart, and understand what they want in life. It’s such an easy, simple thing to do, but hard to do, if that makes sense.
You know, ’cause it requires
Brett Allen (12:14)
Yeah, no.
Anthony (12:16)
you to be vulnerable and to tell them your desires too. I mean, I’ll tell you, as an employer, when I hired when I used to hire people, it’s like I wouldn’t be forthcoming of all the warts that the practice had for fear that they would say no. So I would be like, yeah, we look like this, it would look like that, and we look like this, right? And then it would be me trying to sell them to be like, you should join us. But then it’s like
Well, I didn’t tell you, like these are the things I’m struggling with, these are the things I’m trying to do. I’m hoping that you’re the person that can do this for me. And is there anything that I can do for you? Right? And so
Brett Allen (12:49)
Yeah.
Anthony (12:50)
it becomes this kind of heart to heart. And when it’s a powerful thing I find when you align hearts, then a true commitment, a commitment occurs, if that makes sense. A commitment. Because otherwise
Brett Allen (12:59)
Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah.
Anthony (13:02)
the commitment is transactional. I pay you this, and you do this.
And it’s just like, you know, you can leave me whenever you want to. It’s not a commitment.
Brett Allen (13:09)
Yeah. No, there’s a the yeah, there’s I mean, that’s a whole nother topic is w when to hire an associate, how how to vet them and make sure they’re the right fit. We had Bob Spiel and Brighton Neald on the show a while back with then was partner pros. They have a whole process of how they connect associates and align them with practices so that the success rate of that partnership or that hire is
is good. You you guys should check out that episode
Anthony (13:36)
Yeah.
Brett Allen (13:36)
if you’re if if you’re interested in that. But thank you for sharing all of that. I I’d love to transition into the meat of this episode and what and why I wanted to have you on the show. I I love having dentists on who are practicing and owner docs because they bring a perspective that’s different than the consultant and the expert or the the key opinion leaders per se in the industry. so
I I wanna get into your story of what you were sharing on dental nachos. Walk us through so you own this practice, you start it, you hire the associate. Walk us through that period in your life where things started to get really heavy for you and hard and tell us what that was like and yeah.
Anthony (14:17)
So here’s the wild thing. It’s it’s like the story you hear of these celebrities who have these perfect lives, and then they just jump off the cliff, you know, like a Britney Spears shave your head type thing, you know. You know,
Brett Allen (14:28)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (14:30)
and and you’re like, dude, you have all these things going on, like what’s wrong with you? And I
Brett Allen (14:34)
Yeah.
Anthony (14:35)
always thought from far away that I would go, Well yeah, what’s wrong with you? until it happened to me. And it it honestly, if you were to look at me.
I was totally fine. my marriage was fantastic, my kids were good, the practice was great, it was generating money, it was profitability. I can I can do
Brett Allen (14:53)
Yeah.
Anthony (14:53)
the things that my mind had a desire to do, right? Just like a lot of dentists,
Brett Allen (14:57)
Yeah.
Anthony (14:57)
like, okay, this practice is great. Should I open up another practice? Should I bring another associate? Like I had these thoughts that I knew that I could manifest because I had the opportunity and I was so blessed with all these other resources, right? So
Brett Allen (15:09)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (15:10)
I had the world at my grasp, right?
Brett Allen (15:13)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (15:13)
And
then suddenly it was I got to a point where it’s like, when do I stop?
Like literally when do I stop? Do I just
Brett Allen (15:18)
Yeah.
Anthony (15:19)
keep growing? Do I just keep bringing associates on? Do I just keep opening practice? Once I do that, then do I like find another mountain to summit? Like,
Brett Allen (15:27)
Mm.
Anthony (15:28)
this is this is a nice view. there’s another place. And I just keep climbing that and I just keep climbing that. And I just and it’s just
Brett Allen (15:34)
Mm
Anthony (15:34)
like this thing where I’m just like, why am I doing this thing over and over again? And so it honestly left this empty feeling inside of me.
Brett Allen (15:44)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (15:44)
Okay,
where it’s like I I guess I just jump on this hamster wheel, and then when I’m done, I find another hamster wheel.
Brett Allen (15:51)
Yeah.
Anthony (15:52)
And I’m like, I’m like, this stinks. Like, is this literally my life? And
Brett Allen (15:55)
Yeah.
Anthony (15:56)
so I then I just started looking for answers. Okay. And then I started reading a lot of books. And I started reading a lot of books in regards to like leadership books and things like that and psychology. And so like it gave me a good framework. But then I was like, no.
Then I just realized there was one thing I was doing is I was reading how do they say this? The book of opinions. Yes. No, no, it’s just like like like like here’s a book. A book of my opinions. A book of my opinions. And a book of
Brett Allen (16:17)
The book of opinions? Is that an an actual title of the book? Or or your c a categorization. Yeah. This is someone’s this is right. This is Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anthony (16:30)
my opinions. And so I was just reading books of opinions.
Brett Allen (16:33)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anthony (16:33)
And I’m like,
I can’t find a thing. So I’m like, okay, I’m gonna go a little bit further back and go to the ancients. So I went like modern, pre-modern, and then I went all the way backwards, and I went to like the ancients, and I went to Aristotle, and I went to Soccer, and I like I read all this stuff, right? And I was like,
Brett Allen (16:46)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anthony (16:47)
I was like, okay, well, there’s a reason these guys hang out for a long time, because they must have something to say, because I need to figure out how to live my life. Like I know how to
Brett Allen (16:55)
Yeah.
Anthony (16:55)
do math, I know how to do like biology. I don’t know how
Brett Allen (16:58)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (16:59)
to live my life. Because
Honestly, what I was telling you in the very beginning is the only reason the the life I lived is because someone else told me how to live it.
Brett Allen (17:07)
Mm, mm,
Anthony (17:08)
Right.
Brett Allen (17:09)
mm.
Anthony (17:09)
And so the it it bothered me. And so I read these ancients and then they all touched upon one common thread, it’s virtue.
Virtue, right? Which is the highest good.
Brett Allen (17:21)
Yeah.
Anthony (17:21)
And so for me, it just led me down this path of figuring out what was good.
Brett Allen (17:27)
Mm.
Anthony (17:27)
Suddenly I realized everything that I thought was good was only because of my self-interest.
Brett Allen (17:33)
Mm. Yeah.
Anthony (17:34)
Does that make sense? Like I wouldn’t do
it if it I I wouldn’t do it if it didn’t serve my own interest. Why would I? Why would I sacrifice myself
Brett Allen (17:42)
Yeah.
Anthony (17:43)
if it didn’t do that, right?
Brett Allen (17:44)
Yeah.
Anthony (17:45)
And so but then eventually things started happening in my own personal life and things like that, and certain things happened where I didn’t agree with certain things and I was stuck with this decision or something, right?
Brett Allen (18:00)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (18:01)
And it when I when I go back and I think about why I acted the way I acted in response to that, it was because I thought I was good. If that sounds makes sense, right? That I
Brett Allen (18:10)
Interesting. Yeah.
Anthony (18:11)
that I deserved a certain a certain thing. I didn’t get it, so I’m gonna figure something else out to
Brett Allen (18:18)
Mm.
Anthony (18:19)
get it. And the things that I got were just empty.
Brett Allen (18:22)
Interesting. Yeah.
Anthony (18:22)
It’s empty. It
it was me just grasping at things, grasping at things that grasp because I felt like I deserved it. Right? Because
Brett Allen (18:29)
Yeah.
Anthony (18:30)
my whole life I had worked and gotten it. And I got it, right? Yeah. But this time yeah,
Brett Allen (18:32)
And you got the outcome. Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah, there’s a
Anthony (18:37)
go ahead.
Brett Allen (18:38)
Yeah, sorry to not to interrupt, but I it
Anthony (18:40)
Go ahead.
Brett Allen (18:41)
seems like we’re touching on this concept of achievement. And like you have this experience in life that if I do XYZ thing, I get the goal, I get the outcome. And that was what you were building up your happiness on was I can achieve, I can I can summit this next mountain, I can do this next thing.
I can check this box and that was your happiness. Tony Robbins, I I love him, and he has this concept of the science of achievement, the art of fulfillment, and we wrestle
Anthony (19:11)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Allen (19:11)
with this. And it’s almost like you didn’t have fulfillment in life. You Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (19:15)
Exactly. That’s exactly it. You’re absolutely
right. So I read a lot of books on happiness. Okay. Neurobi
Brett Allen (19:21)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Anthony (19:22)
the psychology of happiness, the neurobiology of happiness, things like that, and
Brett Allen (19:26)
Yeah.
Anthony (19:26)
even the religiosity of happiness. Okay.
Brett Allen (19:29)
Okay.
Anthony (19:29)
And so because I live my life happy, sad, happy, sad, happy, sad. All the time. Like
Brett Allen (19:34)
yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (19:34)
this fluctuation. It was never just like even keel. It happy, sad, happy, sad, sad. And so with happiness, what it really comes down to is happiness is just a state of mind.
What it is, it’s fleeting, it’s an event, it’s circumstantial, right? It’s not like a being, like I am not. Like if I say I am happy, I am not. Like, you know what I’m saying? Like, if I said I am zebra, I am zebra, right? But if you say I am happy,
Brett Allen (19:55)
Yeah. Yeah, okay. It’s like a feeling.
Anthony (19:59)
I am like I am not happy, right? I’m not literally happy. So it’s a the
Brett Allen (20:01)
Yeah. You identify
as that. It’s a mo it’s an emotion versus an identity.
Anthony (20:06)
Correct, right? And so really what I was really chasing was not the the actual happiness, but the things leading up to the happiness, right? Like they’ll do like
Brett Allen (20:14)
Mm.
Anthony (20:15)
experiments on monkeys and stuff like that, and the highest level of dopamine is not at the happiness point, but it’s at the at the rising point of happiness. Like the anticipation, right? So like neurobiologically
Brett Allen (20:22)
interesting. Yeah.
Anthony (20:24)
and chemically, that’s really what it is. It’s you know you know, you’re you’re you’re it’s call it faith, right? Faith and hope,
Brett Allen (20:29)
Yeah, yeah.
Anthony (20:30)
right? Is that you’re gonna go up in this thing, you’re gonna reach things. But then when you reach the thing.
The dopamine dumps. And
Brett Allen (20:36)
Interesting. Yeah.
Anthony (20:38)
then you’re done. So it’s like you go on a vacation, you’re like you’re looking towards a vacation, you’re you’re planning it, you’re looking forward to it, you’re like super happy. I got something to look forward to. You do that, you do the vacation, and boom, it’s like, what do I do now? Right? And so same thing
Brett Allen (20:48)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (20:50)
with these summits of like open up a practice. I got something to look forward to, look forward. And then I do it, and then like, what is next? Right?
Brett Allen (20:57)
Hmm.
Anthony (20:58)
And so that was the thing. And then suddenly in this in my life, it was like,
the thing that I wanted, I can’t get. And it’s because my whole worldview was based on happiness, like getting the thing. Getting the thing. no. And then no, I shouldn’t say getting the thing. It was get the thing. Alright, get the thing.
Brett Allen (21:18)
Yeah, yeah. There’s there’s
there’s a concept that we’re touching on it, maybe in Buddhism, I forget where I’ve heard it, but the unhappiness is the gap between an expectation and where you’re at. And so if you set these shoulds and these these expectations in life of like I I should or I expect X, that that delta between where you are and and that is a recipe for unhappiness. Yeah.
Anthony (21:43)
That’s correct.
Yeah. Yeah. Hinduism, Buddhism, things like that, they
Brett Allen (21:45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anthony (21:46)
they they work they they focus on detachment. Yeah. Yeah. Detachment. Where
Brett Allen (21:50)
Yes, yeah. Yeah. Removing yourself
from from any kind of what should be. Yeah. And there’s some truth to that. I
Anthony (21:57)
Right, right. And so it it
Brett Allen (21:59)
mean, but at the same time, sitting around all day and just being in a state of zen, I I don’t know if for me if that would be if that would be right.
Anthony (22:10)
That no, you’re absolutely correct. Yeah,
you know, you’re you’re absolutely correct. Cause that’s like the that’s like the highest part of it. So it depends on what perspective that you have. Is
Brett Allen (22:20)
Yeah.
Anthony (22:20)
yeah, you could remove all stimulation and you would achieve like nirvana, right? But that makes absolutely no sense. And so
Brett Allen (22:24)
Ye yes. Right. It seems like that’s
the opposite end of unhappiness, really. I don’t know. We’re beings of creation.
Anthony (22:34)
Right.
Brett Allen (22:35)
We are we are to create, in my opinion. Yeah.
Anthony (22:38)
No,
you’re absolutely correct. You’re actually correct. And so I’ve thought about that as well. I’m like, maybe I should just shave my head and become a monk. And so,
Brett Allen (22:41)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (22:46)
but the the issue, the issue that comes across is, is that true peace? You and I just identified that that’s not peace. Right? That’s
Brett Allen (22:54)
Yeah.
Anthony (22:55)
not peace. Like, and so, because I I thought about this is is if you threw me on an island with no problems, would I be at peace?
Brett Allen (23:04)
Yeah.
Anthony (23:05)
Probably
n like with no one around and like maybe just beautiful trees and scenery, like would I be at peace?
Brett Allen (23:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, Tom Hanks on s castaway, right? Yeah.
Anthony (23:13)
Yeah, that doesn’t sound peaceful, right? And
so for me, my definition of peace ended. So, you know, for me it was I was happy sad, happy sad. And I was like, man, this like this wave length is like too much for me. It’s got amplitudes and like depressions and all that stuff, right? I just I just want to even keel, which is peace, right?
Brett Allen (23:28)
Yeah.
Anthony (23:28)
The definition it’s the same. But then I thought about the island concept. I’m like, I don’t want that either, right? I don’t want
Brett Allen (23:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (23:35)
that either. And so for me, my idea of peace, and this is honestly what’s really helped me, it’s my own definition of peace.
Is peace is not no problems. Peace is in the presence of problems, you know you will always be victorious.
Brett Allen (23:49)
You will always be victorious. Hmm.
Anthony (23:51)
Correct, right?
That no matter what comes at you, cancer or bankruptcy, right? Whatever, right? I can handle it. I can handle it. I’m gonna be okay. I can do this. I’m gonna be okay. Maybe not
Brett Allen (23:59)
Yeah. I’m gonna be okay. Yeah, I can do this. Yeah.
Anthony (24:07)
I can do this, but maybe I’m gonna I can be okay or something. You know, it’s
Brett Allen (24:10)
Yeah.
Anthony (24:10)
like life life is filled with problems. Because I I wanted, here’s here’s my my source of unhappiness too: is I want a life of no problems.
Right, which is an unrealistic expectation. Right.
Brett Allen (24:19)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that’s not like, yeah.
Anthony (24:23)
Yeah. And so for me, it was okay, well, I’m gonna have these problems no matter what. I don’t wanna be absent of problems, because that’s like the island analogy. But I wanna have
Brett Allen (24:30)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (24:31)
problems, but I don’t wanna have too much problems. But then what if I get like a huge problem? What do I do? Yeah. And so,
Brett Allen (24:36)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (24:38)
yeah. And so it’s it’s it’s honestly a mindset. It’s a mindset that no matter what problem that I encounter.
Brett Allen (24:44)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (24:44)
it
I will be victorious. And that is peace. You can just like hit me with a bunch of stuff and it’s like it’s all good. It’s all good. I know peace. Yeah, it’s all good. And so that’s peace.
Brett Allen (24:51)
This is okay. Yeah. So you did
you reach kind of a a rock bottom moment that that was a a turning point for you? Where I I think you mentioned
in your video at one point you were contemplating
Anthony (25:02)
Yes.
Brett Allen (25:04)
taking your life.
Anthony (25:05)
No, I wouldn’t I was contemplating taking looks like it. Okay. I wasn’t close to taking my life. Let me clarify that. But I was thinking about it and I knew the trajectory, if I could say that.
Brett Allen (25:16)
okay. Okay.
Anthony (25:16)
Right? Because I needed I felt like I felt like there was nothing left. Like I had, you know, I’m I I’m in a life I don’t want to be in.
Brett Allen (25:27)
Yeah.
Anthony (25:27)
Those thoughts came into my head. And I’ll tell you the truth. And I think this is honestly what everyone experiences.
Is that your most vulnerable state is honestly in your bed when you are alone in the dark with your own thoughts. Okay,
Brett Allen (25:41)
Mm.
Anthony (25:42)
and what happens is these thoughts come from somewhere, and what happens
Brett Allen (25:46)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (25:47)
is it comes into your head without your permission. Okay.
Brett Allen (25:49)
Control, yeah. Yeah, yeah, just yeah,
these thoughts come up, yeah.
Anthony (25:53)
Right. And then what happens is you entertain them, you talk with them, right, and you explore the idea that was put into your head. Right.
Brett Allen (26:01)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (26:02)
And one of those was, hey, what if I just didn’t live? Right.
Brett Allen (26:06)
Yeah.
Anthony (26:08)
And so because it’s like, my life is unfair, or my life is like what whatever. And like it’s like this kind of the spiraling thing that happens. Right. And so if you ask me what my rock bottom was, is every night was a rock bottom when I was in that spot.
Because I w I would be attacked constantly with these intrusive thoughts. And and I would keep telling myself, stop thinking these things, stop thinking these things, stop thinking these things. And I had no method or ability to remove them. Right.
Brett Allen (26:34)
Mm, yeah.
Anthony (26:35)
And and so and then I would go to then I would wake up and I would go to work and I don’t know, it would be fine, because I have distractions from my mind.
Brett Allen (26:44)
Yeah, yeah, it takes your mind
off of it. Yeah.
Anthony (26:47)
Yeah, and then when I don’t have the distractions and I’m by myself, then that’s when they come again. And
Brett Allen (26:52)
Mm.
Anthony (26:52)
then, you know, I I I mean it’s it’s it’s like the movie Inception, you know, where they like plant an idea into your mind. Like I would
Brett Allen (26:58)
Yeah, great movie.
Anthony (26:59)
yeah, think about it. I mean I I would think about these thoughts and then fall asleep.
Brett Allen (27:03)
Wow, yeah. And maybe in your
Anthony (27:03)
Right. And who knows and and who knows like what
Brett Allen (27:06)
subconscious sleeping that, you know, reverberates and gets deeper.
Anthony (27:10)
Yeah, it’s literally the last thought I have before I start consolidating my memories, I guess you could say. Right.
Brett Allen (27:15)
Yeah.
Anthony (27:16)
And then who knows, like when I wake up, what I’m gonna do, like unconsciously.
Brett Allen (27:20)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (27:21)
Right. And so for me, I read enough to know that I’m gonna do something, like whether I
Brett Allen (27:25)
yeah.
Anthony (27:25)
like it or not, by accident, and and think that it is because of my own will. But honestly, it all started from a random thought. And so
Brett Allen (27:33)
Well
Anthony (27:34)
for me, and and and if I really think back.
About things that I’ve done in my life, it it kind of went that way. You know, like maybe I hate my like I lay in bed and like I hate my associateship and like I have to do something and it’s just like, you know, and then suddenly something happens and I do something impulsive in the day because
Brett Allen (27:52)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (27:52)
it was something that I just buried in my head.
Brett Allen (27:55)
Hm.
Anthony (27:56)
And so for me, that’s if you can your question was, what was that rock bottom like? It was
in my head all the time. In my head. Right? It’s not it’s not like I was like an alcoholic, you know, you know, blessed alcoholic
Brett Allen (28:04)
Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (28:09)
song. Like on the floor, like drugged out or something.
Brett Allen (28:11)
Did you ever feel
it did you ever feel it was related to dentistry and the the profession? Was it I can’t see another patient. This is or my practice, I can’t manage it. Like was it anything related to work or your your dentistry?
Anthony (28:28)
I
yeah, I would say it was a contributing factor, but it wasn’t the source. I could easily have scapegoated it. Right?
Brett Allen (28:35)
Okay. Okay.
Anthony (28:36)
Like in my head, like I so here’s the thought that went in my head. I should sell the practice.
Brett Allen (28:41)
Yeah. Just get out of dentistry, change course. Yeah.
Anthony (28:41)
Right, I should sell the practice. Just get out of it. And if you
ask people who’ve sold their practices, I’m pretty sure they’re probably like, I just need get rid of this thing. It’s like a thing I need to sell. Right. And you lay in bed and you think about
Brett Allen (28:50)
Yeah. Some people need to change.
Anthony (28:52)
it.
Brett Allen (28:53)
Yeah, and that’s true for some. I we had Dr. Laura Brenner, she’s a friend here in Denver. We had her on the show. She she has a whole consultancy and process around you know, burnout and how to manage
Anthony (29:06)
Mm-hmm.
Brett Allen (29:06)
it. And is some for some it is changing profession and and getting out. Yeah, for sure.
Anthony (29:12)
Yeah, but I I mean I will say this too as well, is the grass isn’t greener on the other side. It’s the same grass, but the the dead patches are in different places.
Brett Allen (29:21)
Yeah, it’s something different. You you’re gonna experience some aspect of problems or challenge in whatever direction. Yeah.
Anthony (29:27)
Right. And I knew that if I left, I would just be exporting my my problems into another arena. You
Brett Allen (29:35)
Yeah.
Anthony (29:35)
know? And so I knew that wasn’t a choice. And so like I gotta figure this thing out. Otherwise I’m gonna live my life with this person. Yeah.
Brett Allen (29:41)
Yeah. So what what was it
that ultimately helped you? What what epiphany did you have? I think I remember you mentioning that faith was a component of your journey. Yeah.
Anthony (29:51)
A hundred percent. Yeah.
Yeah. So what happened was literally this. Is I I’m trying to figure this out. I’m trying to fight these intrusive thoughts. I know what they’re doing to me, but I can’t stop it because it’s like the whole thing. If you stop thinking about an elephant, stop thinking about an elephant, and then you start thinking about an elephant. And so I kept
Brett Allen (30:08)
You’re gonna think about an elephant, yeah.
Anthony (30:09)
yeah, I I kept thinking about like I gotta stop these intrusive thoughts, I gotta see and then I just kept thinking about these intrusive thoughts. It like obsessive, right? It was what do they call it? It’s it’s it’s taking up mo space in my mind rent-free, right?
Brett Allen (30:19)
Yeah,
yeah.
Anthony (30:21)
That that type thing. because I’m allowing it. And so yeah, I grew up Catholic. I was the whole like kind of go through the motions Catholic. I was a kid, I didn’t really understand it, sit in the pews, go for the every Sundays and you know, get confirmed and you know, I went through the whole the whole thing.
Brett Allen (30:34)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (30:35)
but it never really applied to my life until I really hit rock bottom and I and I was just crying out to like, please stop these thoughts. Please stop these
Brett Allen (30:44)
Mm.
Anthony (30:45)
thoughts. Okay. And so what hap
So then what I did is so like I I wear a rosary right now. Okay. And it it it’s the beginning of my my walk. But the way the rosary works is called a rosary because it’s like a rosarian, it’s like a rose garden, right? And so and what you’re supposed to do is you’re supposed like hold it and each beat is a prayer, and you kind of walk the rose the rose garden with this thing. That’s kind of that’s kind of what
Brett Allen (31:05)
Mm.
Anthony (31:06)
it means. And so I would just pray, and so as I would pray, it would give me peace, right? And I guess you can say there’s a neurobiological component to that.
In the sense that I am focused on something else other than my intrusive thoughts. So like when my
Brett Allen (31:22)
Yeah.
Anthony (31:22)
thoughts would come into my head, I would pray.
Brett Allen (31:25)
Mm.
Anthony (31:25)
Right. And as I would pray, it would focus my mind on this prayer and I would just go through it. Right.
Brett Allen (31:31)
Yeah.
Anthony (31:32)
And so that began to lead. And then so then I when I did that, then I started going, you know what? I should, you know, for me Catholic, I should probably read the Bible. Usually my whole life was
someone else read the Bible to me. I
Brett Allen (31:44)
Okay.
Anthony (31:44)
should probably do it myself. I’m I’m okay with reading like Aristotle and Socrates and all those dudes,
Brett Allen (31:47)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (31:49)
but I should probably read this book that my faith is based on. And so I started reading and I read it like a like like hardcore. And and then it just started to speak to me is what it did. and so that that’s that’s where it led. And it led to faith. And so there’s certain sayings in there that just really just gosh
makes sense to me in the
Brett Allen (32:11)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony (32:11)
sense of how to live your life. like for instance, we walk by faith, not by sight. That’s like one line. Okay.
Brett Allen (32:17)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Anthony (32:18)
For me, I was living by sight all day, every day. I was like looking at stuff and then letting it affect me and then taking it in and things like that. It were like, for instance, like my employees, if I walked by sight, I would see a certain thing, I would
Brett Allen (32:32)
Hmm.
Anthony (32:33)
judge them, right? And that would be it.
Like I knew you because I made the judgment. You’re like a late person, or you’re
Brett Allen (32:38)
yeah.
Anthony (32:39)
like a lazy person, or you’re like a thing, right? And so
Brett Allen (32:41)
Yeah.
Anthony (32:42)
when you operate out of knowledge, you know the thing. There’s no change. It’s like it’s like it’s like if you talk to someone who had Google Maps, right? And then you’re like telling them what the directions are. They’re like, no, no, no, no. I I got Google Maps. I’m good. I don’t need to listen to you. Right? That was me. I don’t need to listen to you. Right?
Brett Allen (32:56)
Yeah. wow, yeah.
Anthony (32:59)
Right? Because I got Google Maps.
Brett Allen (33:01)
Yeah. You’re you’re yeah.
Anthony (33:03)
Yeah, and so I
Brett Allen (33:03)
The arbiter of truth, you know all. Yeah.
Anthony (33:05)
know all, right? And so because of my sight is what it was. And so instead I walk by faith, and pe in of course God, and then also with people too, is that blessed are those who believe but do not see. All
Brett Allen (33:20)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Anthony (33:21)
right. So I believe, like in my employees, I believe that you could do this. I believe, right? And it’s that whole neurobiological thing of like hope.
Brett Allen (33:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (33:30)
Right? Right. That was all dopamine.
Like you you you look forward to the vacation. I look forward to their growth is what it is. I don’t I don’t need you to like be there. I just want you to walk it. And that enough is like good for me. And
Brett Allen (33:41)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Anthony (33:44)
so if that makes sense.
Brett Allen (33:45)
No, yeah, that’s helpful. I’m I’m a believer as well, Christian. I actually have I have a cross necklace I wear. It’s it’s you know,
Anthony (33:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Allen (33:53)
it’s a reminder to me of good things. Yeah. Like you said, in the word
Anthony (33:59)
It is, yeah.
Brett Allen (34:00)
and in in Christianity that that paradigm is there is peace. I found it in my life from it. So but thank you for sharing that.
Anthony (34:06)
Yeah.
Brett Allen (34:08)
Yeah, so ha I in in your post and dental nachos you you you s you opened yourself up to be a resource and someone who can people can connect with if they’re having a hard time. Have has anyone reached out to you? Have you talked to anyone?
Anthony (34:21)
I have. I have.
I have. People have sent me messages of thank yous and I’ve had messages of it resonated. Yes, it resonated
Brett Allen (34:29)
I need help? anybody? Okay.
Anthony (34:32)
with me. This is exactly what I’m feeling right now.
Brett Allen (34:35)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Anthony (34:37)
one person said I was literally having like a spiraling thing the night before and then I woke
Brett Allen (34:44)
Well
Anthony (34:44)
up and then saw on Facebook your video.
Brett Allen (34:47)
Well.
Anthony (34:48)
And so so I know this thing that I experienced is not a uncommon thing. I think it’s a very
Brett Allen (34:54)
no, for sure. Yeah.
Anthony (34:56)
common thing. Yeah. So
Brett Allen (34:58)
Yeah.
Anthony (34:59)
but yeah, I’ve been blessed to really it help help a few people that’s that have reached out to me and so it’s it’s it’s been a blessing.
Brett Allen (35:05)
Well, that’s good.
Anthony (35:06)
Yeah.
Brett Allen (35:07)
Yeah, that’s awesome. I’m so glad you shared. and being vulnerable this way, I think this creates connection. This is what we need more of. We need people to be real. We need we need real conversation. I think social media, especially for our kids, it it’s a superficial almost veneer portrayal of life and how we should be. Again, an expectation, something that
we should you know ways we should act or or how we should be and it it can create and it has I mean my wife and I we just went through a course at church I’m forgetting the book that we were using but there’s a a a title of the book it’s all about mobile devices and how it’s affecting our youth. I’ll I’ll
Anthony (35:55)
Yes, a hundred percent.
Brett Allen (35:56)
I’ll put it in the show notes. I’m forgetting the name of the book, but it it it’s a true thing. This whole
dynamic that we’re having to deal with with our kids and how they’re being affected by devices and the content that th we consume at an earlier an earlier age and should we allow these these influences in our kids’ lives. yeah. But well
Anthony (36:15)
Yeah. A hundred percent. You
know, I I I it it’s a I think it’s a it might be like a Jonathan Height book or something like that. but no, I feel you, ’cause when I reflect upon the past, the things that I’ve the person that I am, I can I can root it to certain things that I was exposed to in my childhood and and how do I say this teenager years that just unconsciously just
Brett Allen (36:41)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Anthony (36:42)
molded me, right? Not to say that I am that
person or it defined me, not to say that, but that
Brett Allen (36:47)
Yeah.
Anthony (36:48)
it was a part of my story.
Brett Allen (36:49)
Yeah. Yeah, the book is The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haid. I think you s you said Yeah, you said, yeah. Yeah, I mean Australia
Anthony (36:53)
That’s it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s the book, yeah. It’s a good book.
Brett Allen (36:57)
I think recently came out and they are or is it New Zealand, I forget, outlawed devices for kids under the age of sixteen or something. yeah. Yeah. But
Anthony (37:06)
I think it’s good. Honestly, I think it’s good. Yeah.
Brett Allen (37:08)
Well, I mean, this has been the longest episode on Marking 32. This has been a great conversation. I know there’s way even more, like if we could have experts on and talk with you, it would be a cool panel for sure. And I think it would be very helpful. But I’m not I’m not
Anthony (37:20)
A hundred percent. I’m totally down for that. I think it’s important.
Brett Allen (37:24)
an expert in psychology. I’m not an expert in this aspect of our industry, but I I think these conversations we we need to have them. So thank you for coming on and sharing your your story, Dr. Do.
Anthony (37:35)
Yeah. Well thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Brett Allen (37:37)
Yeah. Well we always close with a gold nugget. What’s that one epiphany that you’ve had that has really made an impact for you? It could be about this topic, it could be something else. it could be dentistry related, it could be life related, as a parent of a a spouse. What’s that one gold nugget you can share with our audience?
Anthony (37:54)
Gosh, it’s all sandcastles. It’s all sandcastles. Yeah. We all intricately and with all our might and all our effort under the heat of the sun and sweat and tears built this beautiful sandcastle. We love it, we marvel it, we show people about it. Look at what I did, things like that. Maybe I’ll
Brett Allen (38:12)
Yeah.
Anthony (38:13)
build another sand castle. Maybe I’ll build ten solid sandcastles. And then at the end of the day, what happens is it does get washed away and no one
Brett Allen (38:20)
Yeah.
Anthony (38:21)
will know you were there.
I know it sounds very nihilistic and kind of like a bummer, but it
Brett Allen (38:26)
Yeah.
Anthony (38:27)
is true. It is true. And so you kind of ask yourself why you build the sandcastle. And so that’s that’s a question I would ask, is why you’re building that sandcastle? because once you
Brett Allen (38:35)
Yeah.
Anthony (38:36)
know it’s a sandcastle, I I hope that that concept brings you peace in the struggles and stresses that you have.
Brett Allen (38:42)
Yeah, I love that. I’m yeah, it’s something you we we do these activities day to day, day in and day out. But it’s not who def it’s not what defines us. It’s not our identity. It’s just something can bring us joy, but fulfillment is something you have to work on internally. Yeah. Well, thank you again. This has been a great conversation. d if anyone needs to c wants to connect with you, what where should we send them? How sh how can they connect with you?
Anthony (39:08)
yeah, you can find me on Facebook, Anthony Joe. you can I guess yeah, just send me a message there. That’s the best way. You know, I I kinda checked that
Brett Allen (39:16)
DM on Facebook.
Anthony (39:17)
and also. Yeah.
Brett Allen (39:18)
We’ll put we’ll put your profile we’ll link to your profile if that’s all right in the in the show notes. Awesome. Well
Anthony (39:22)
Sounds good. Yeah.
Brett Allen (39:24)
thank you again. thank you. It was a great conversation.
Anthony (39:27)
Thanks for having me, Brett.
Brett Allen (39:28)
All right, everybody, until next time on the Marking thirty two show. Have a great rest of your day. Great rest of your week. Take care
