If We’re Not Failing, We’re Not Trying”: How Turning Dentistry Into a Trade and Celebrating Failures Built a Multi-Location Powerhouse
What happens when someone who didn’t know what a prophy was—or even understand what a root canal really involved—answers phones at a dental practice, falls in love with the leadership piece, and eventually becomes director of operations for a growing group practice with a weekly executive cadence focused on celebrating failures? Denae Black has turned dentistry into her trade over 20 years, climbing from front desk to office manager to director of operations, learning that the key to scaling from one location to multiple practices isn’t about having perfect systems—it’s about having consistent systems that everyone follows the same way, giving yourself grace for the 20% that will be different based on team and patient base, and getting comfortable with difficult conversations. After her husband’s Air Force orders relocated them from Arizona to North Carolina, she joined a practice where she sat on the executive level team with Eric Roman as visionary, working alongside directors of marketing, hygiene, and finance in structured weekly meetings where the mantra was clear: if you’re not failing, you’re not trying. Now as owner and consultant of Dental DNA Consulting, she takes clients through a three-phase journey—Dream It (define what you’re building), Narrate (create a customized plan), Accelerate (roll up sleeves and implement)—partnering closely with practices navigating transitions like expanding locations, dropping insurance, reducing clinical days, or preparing for retirement. In this conversation, Denae reveals why leadership is the most common barrier holding practices back (you know the hard conversations you need to have, you’re just not prioritizing them), why annual performance reviews are useless (you’re really only reviewing the last 2-3 months anyway), and why communication isn’t just important—it’s the difference between being a proactive leader versus a reactive one who has no idea the hygienist was unhappy until she puts in her notice.
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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- 02:22 – Turning dentistry into a trade: Starting by answering phones knowing nothing about dentistry
- 03:35 – Director of operations role: Where she fell in love with the business side
- 04:40 – Defining systems and best practices to go from one to two to three locations
- 05:40 – The 80/20 rule: 80% can be duplicated, 20% will be different based on team/patient base/flow
- 07:37 – D phase = Dream It: Lock in what you’re trying to build, define the dream
- 08:55 – Most common barrier: Leadership is holding people back
- 10:11 – Communication is key: Ties into inspiring team and having difficult conversations
- 12:05 – Proactive vs. reactive leadership: Communication prevents surprises
- 13:11 – Cadence recommendation: Check in weekly (hallway conversation style)
- 14:03 – Why annual performance reviews don’t work: Only based on last 2-3 months anyway
- 15:05 – Don’t put weekly check-ins on official calendar—use personal reminders instead
- 17:44 – Another bottleneck: Systems and consistency
- 18:05 – Paper airplane exercise: Everyone builds differently, planes go everywhere
- 19:34 – Ideal client: Someone working through transition
- 20:50 – Typical engagement: Meeting 1-2 times per month
- 22:53 – Biggest wins: Results in personal life, not just revenue
- 23:49 – Dentistry’s unique advantage: Can run business without knowing numbers because people need it
- 25:40 – The golden nugget: Have a vision—be crystal clear on what you’re building
Denae Black never imagined dentistry would become her trade, but when she started answering phones at a group practice in Arizona—not knowing what a prophy was or really understanding what a root canal involved—the practice took her under their wing and taught her everything: phones, check-in, check-out, treatment planning, eventually office management. She fell in love with the leadership piece. When her husband got Air Force orders to relocate to North Carolina, she took a director of operations position that unlocked her passion for the business side of dentistry. This was where she learned the foundation of systems, best practices, and what it takes to scale from one location to two to three and beyond. She eventually consulted with various groups before launching Dental DNA Consulting independently in May 2024, turning her 20-year journey from knowing nothing into a comprehensive trade mastery. Her background with Eric Roman and Josie Sewell taught her that growing a group practice isn’t about perfection—it’s about structure, consistency, and culture. She sat on an executive team of five (visionary, director of ops, director of marketing, director of hygiene, finance) with structured weekly cadence meetings focused on one mantra: if you’re not failing, you’re not trying. Getting uncomfortable and celebrating failures was essential. The key insight: 80% of what happens in a practice can be duplicated, but 20% will be different based on team, patient base, and flow—so give yourself grace while maintaining strong systems.
The DNA approach she developed takes clients through three phases: Dream It (D), Narrate (N), and Accelerate (A). The Dream It phase locks in what you’re building—defining your vision and ensuring team structure supports that dream. Many dentists have ideas but don’t know how to communicate them, so this phase creates clarity. The Narrate phase builds a customized plan to actually make it happen, and the Accelerate phase is where Denae rolls up her sleeves and partners with the team to bring everything to life. Her ideal clients are practices navigating transitions: expanding from one to two locations, dropping from five clinical days to three or four, navigating dropping insurance, or preparing for retirement. These clients are goal-oriented, which aligns perfectly with her approach. The most common barrier she encounters is leadership—specifically, that practices know the hard conversations they need to have and the shifts they need to make, but they’re not prioritizing them. Maybe they’re uncomfortable, maybe they don’t know how to squeeze time in, but the leadership deficit is what holds most practices back from reaching the next level.
Communication is Denae’s foundation for everything. She recommends weekly or bi-weekly check-ins with three simple questions: What’s working well? What’s not working well? How can I support you? These don’t need to be formal calendar appointments—they’re hallway conversations, casual touchpoints that build the trust triangle so team members know you have their best interests in mind. The key is not owning all their problems. When they raise issues, respond with “I have some ideas, but I’d love to hear your thoughts first”—building solution-focused team members instead of becoming the problem dump or the vent they eventually stop talking to. This proactive approach prevents the reactive leadership nightmare: “I had no idea the hygienist wasn’t happy until she put in her notice.” Leaders often avoid these conversations because they don’t want to hear problems, but solution-focused communication is make-or-break. Denae provides clients with a “trust tracker”—an Excel spreadsheet to organize conversations and action items. Every conversation should result in an action item, even if it’s just “I’ll check back in two weeks.” With large teams, it’s easy to lose track of commitments, so the trust tracker ensures follow-through. She completely eliminates annual performance reviews (which only reflect the last 2-3 months anyway) in favor of quarterly reviews covering core values and performance.
The other major bottleneck is systems consistency. Denae uses a paper airplane exercise to illustrate this: when everyone builds planes differently, they go everywhere—some drop at their feet, others left, others right, others far. But when one person shows everyone the same method, they all go farther in the same direction. The system doesn’t have to be perfect (there’s no such thing), but it has to be consistent. Even great leadership can’t overcome inconsistent systems. Her partnerships typically involve meeting 1-2 times monthly—one meeting with leadership on business, one meeting with team on systems and alignment. She’s based in Michigan but works with practices nationwide, flying out about twice a year for big initiatives like annual goal-setting with full team buy-in. She’s available Monday-Friday and gets nervous if she doesn’t hear from clients between meetings (“what fires are you putting out?”). Her biggest wins aren’t revenue numbers—they’re personal life transformations. When a stressed dentist with low cash flow builds reserves to weather bad months without panic, or drops to three days a week and takes month-long international vacations because their practice finally works for them instead of them working for it—that’s the win. Dentistry is unique because people need it, so practices can run without deeply knowing numbers. But when you know what levers to pull, the impact on your life is huge. Whether clients want 10 locations working seven days a week or want to retire in five years, Denae helps them build what works for them. Her golden nugget: Have a vision. Be crystal clear on what you’re building in personal and professional life. When you can see what you’re trying to build, how to get there becomes much clearer. That’s purpose—living life with intention instead of living by default, just reacting to whatever comes your way.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Dental DNA Consulting: Denae Black’s consulting firm helping practices navigate transitions through the Dream It, Narrate, Accelerate framework
- Denae Black LinkedIn Profile: Denae Black’s LinkedIn Profile
- Kara Kelley / Clinical HR Episode: Previous Marketing 32 Show episode on HR compliance and hiring strategies
- Marketing 32: Performance-based dental marketing agency with growth guarantee, working with practices across the US, Canada, and Australia
Quotable Moments:
“I like to tell people I’ve kind of turned dentistry into my trade. I started out answering phones, checking patients in, checking patients out. I didn’t know anything about dentistry when I first started.” – Denae Black
“I didn’t know what a prophy was, really didn’t understand what a root canal was. But the practice that I joined in Arizona really took me under their wing and I learned all of the ins and the outs.” – Denae Black
“I fell in love with the leadership piece of it. In North Carolina is where I took on a position as a director of operations. That is the role that I really fell in love with the business piece.” – Denae Black
“I genuinely turned dentistry into my trade. I started out knowing nothing, and then just eventually took on different opportunities and learned more and learned more.” – Denae Black
“Every single week we would sit down and we had a very structured cadence meeting so that we knew what to expect. It was getting uncomfortable and celebrating failures.” – Denae Black
“What you can do when you know what levers to pull, what it can do for your life is huge. You just have to know how to make your business work for you.” – Denae Black
“My personal wins are when I am able to help a dentist figure out how to get their practice to work for them, whatever that looks like.” – Denae Black
“If they want to go and open 10 locations and they want to work seven days a week, awesome. That’s what they want. Let’s make that work for them.” – Denae Black
“I would say have a vision. Be crystal clear on what it is that you’re trying to build in your personal life and in your professional life.” – Denae Black
“When you can truly see what you’re trying to build, how you can actually get there becomes a lot clearer.” – Denae Black
“That’s purpose. That’s living life with a purpose. And the key to that is knowing where you’re going. So have a vision.” – Denae Black
“I need to rehash my vision and make sure it’s clear with everybody around me. Living life by default and just kind of going through the motions and reacting is not the best way.” – Brett Allen
Key Action Items:
- Define your vision: Get crystal clear on what you’re building personally and professionally—write it down
- Implement weekly/bi-weekly check-ins: Use the three questions (what’s working well, what’s not, how can I support you?) with each team member
- Create a trust tracker: Set up an Excel spreadsheet to organize conversations and track action items
- Use personal reminders, not calendar blocks: List 5 employees to touch base with each week, keep it casual like hallway conversations
- Replace annual reviews with quarterly check-ins: Touch on core values and performance every 90 days
Sponsor for the Episode:
This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32—the only dental marketing team with a performance guarantee where if you’re not growing, you don’t pay. Marketing 32 is truly invested in adding value to your practice and working with doctors they know they can over-deliver for. As Denae powerfully illustrates in this episode, having a clear vision for what you’re building—both personally and professionally—is what separates practices that thrive from practices that just react by default. Marketing 32 helps you build the patient acquisition piece of that vision through strategic online presence, content creation, and growth campaigns. But as Denae emphasizes, marketing is just one lever to pull. You also need leadership, systems consistency, and communication frameworks that empower your team to make your practice work for you instead of you working for it. If you need help with marketing and growth, reach out at marketing32.com for a quick 15-minute discovery call to see if it’s a good fit.
Episode Transcript:
Brett Allen (00:22)
Hi, Brett Allen here, host of the Marketing32 show where I connect with leading dentists, dental influencers, and industry experts to bring you the latest and greatest on insights and innovations to help your practice grow and thrive. As always, our episode is brought to you by our team here at Marketing32. We are the only dental marketing team with the performance guarantee that if you’re not growing, you don’t pay us. We truly are invested in adding value to your practice and working with doctors that we know we can over-deliver.
So if you need help with marketing growth, reach out to us at marketing32.com for a quick 15 minute discovery call. We’ll set you straight and help you grow. Quick shout out to Kara Kelly. We recently had her on the show, did an episode all about HR compliance and hiring. How do you hire people in the dental industry right now and the landscape that we’re in? Igenis, all of that. She had some awesome wisdom to share. So check out that episode.
Super excited to have Denae Black on our show today. A new friend that we met at Rocky Mountain Dental Convention. She is the owner and consultant of Dental DNA Consulting, bringing over 20 years of experience in the dental industry with a strong foundation in dental practice operations. I’m excited to dig into that one with you, Denae. Business management and leadership. She helps practices achieve meaningful, measurable results.
Known for her hands-on approach, Denae doesn’t just provide strategy, she partners closely with her clients, rolling up her sleeves to help implement solutions and drive real change. Excited to have you on the show today, Denae.
Denae Black (01:50)
I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Brett.
Brett Allen (01:52)
Yeah. So, ⁓ we met at Rocky Mountain Dental Convention. ⁓ and then you shared with me that you were involved at North Carolina Dentists and some other friends that we have in the industry. ⁓ tell us your background. How did you get into dentistry? How did you get into operations? Walk us through that, that journey.
Denae Black (02:12)
Yeah, so I like to tell people I’ve kind of turned dentistry into my trade. I started out answering phones, checking patients in, checking patients out. I didn’t know anything about dentistry when I first started. I didn’t know what a prophy was, really didn’t understand what a root canal was. But the practice that I joined, it was a group practice in Arizona, which is the town that like where I grew up.
they really took me under their wing and I learned all of the ins and the outs of what dentistry is and how to answer the phones and check patients in. Eventually I started doing treatment planning and became an office manager. So it was in that group practice in Arizona.
that I understood the foundation of dentistry and I fell in love with the leadership piece of it. And so I actually, my husband is in the Air Force and so he got orders to relocate. So we moved from Arizona to North Carolina. And in North Carolina is where I took on a position as a director of operations. And that is the role that I really fell in love with the business piece of it. So I had the operations, I had the leadership piece and then really dug into the business side.
of it. And then since then, I’ve done consulting with a few different groups. And in May of last year is whenever I actually branched out and went off on my own as an independent consultant, which is where dental DNA came in. So that’s my background. I started out knowing nothing, and then just eventually took on different opportunities and learned more and learned more and genuinely turned dentistry into my trade.
Brett Allen (03:47)
I love that.
You’re a rock star. You get into something, you master it, and you climb the ladder. ⁓ Tell us more about growing a group practice. When you were working with Eric Roman and Josie Sewell, ⁓
Like tell us that, like how, what was that dynamic like? How do you grow a group practice? And cause that’s a totally different ball game than solo practitioner, you know.
Denae Black (04:11)
It was a totally different ball game. I had, I came from a group practice and transitioned to the practice in North Carolina, which was another group practice. So I had a lot of understanding of the systems and how important it was to have best practices and systems and things like that. So you can go from one practice to opening up a second practice and then opening up a third practice. So we really went into, when I first started, it was all about
Brett Allen (04:13)
Yeah.
Yeah. ⁓
Denae Black (04:40)
defining systems and making sure that we were doing things the same in the practices. And then eventually I went from the office manager there to the director of operations position. And that’s then whenever I started to sit on the executive level team. So it was me and four other people. We had a director of
We had the visionary, was Eric Roman. I was the director of ops. We had Eric Roman. had director of marketing, director of hygiene. We had our finance guy. And so every single week we would sit down and we had a very structured cadence meeting so that we knew what to expect. But ⁓ it was, it was, was, it was fun. I think that the key for us was getting uncomfortable and celebrating failures and things like that. That’s what I learned a lot.
Brett Allen (05:17)
Yeah.
Denae Black (05:28)
with them was if we’re not failing we’re not trying and that was one my biggest takeaways.
Brett Allen (05:32)
Yeah.
Denae Black (05:35)
I guess how do you grow a group practice? How do you grow from one to two to three
Brett Allen (05:38)
There’s a lot of moving parts.
Denae Black (05:40)
to multiple practices? I think there’s a lot of moving pieces. You have to have a foundation of best practices ⁓ systems that you know are proven systems that are gonna work from one practice to the next. You also have to give yourself and your team a little bit of leeway and know that 80 % of what’s happening in a practice can be duplicated. 20 % is gonna be a little
different just based off of their team, based off of their patient base, based off of how their flow is. So give yourself grace I would say, ⁓ but also know that its systems are very important and then whenever it comes to being the executive team or the leadership team you have to be able to have difficult conversations and you have to be comfortable failing. Those were the big pieces that we took away and if we didn’t have those pieces we could not have done what what we did.
Brett Allen (06:31)
Yeah, that’s an incredible story. I encourage everybody to go check it out. Eric Roman’s obviously a popular guy in the industry and his story. And we had Emmett Scott on the show one time talking about the DEO, Dental Entrepreneurial Organization, all geared towards group practice. Totally different ball game than single practice. ⁓ Yeah, there’s so much in operations and leadership and management. Tell us more about your method, the DNA approach.
Denae Black (06:59)
Yeah, so the DNA approach ⁓ with my experience, in my experience, what I have learned is that
Brett Allen (06:59)
Yeah.
Denae Black (07:07)
It’s really hard to create something if you don’t know what you’re trying to create. And a lot of times when I partner with dentists, they have an idea of what they want to build, but they don’t know how to communicate it. And so I actually take each one of my clients through the DNA journey. So it’s a fun little spin off of my name, Danae DNA, dental DNA, but it really is the three piece journey that I take all of my clients through. So the D is where
Brett Allen (07:29)
Yeah.
Denae Black (07:37)
we start. So that’s the D phase. That’s the dream it phase where we get we lock in what it is that you’re trying to build. So we define what your dream is. We then make sure that you have the pieces in place to support that dream. So
your team structure. We make sure that we’ve got all of the things that are set up to support the build of what your dream is. Then we move into the in phase, which is the narrate phase. So now that we know what we’re building, what your dream is, now we can put a plan in place to actually make it happen. So it’s a very customized plan based off of what you’re building. Then we go into the A phase, which is the accelerate phase. And that’s where I roll my sleeves up and I work with the
⁓ partner with the team, partner with the leadership team to make all of that stuff come to life. So it’s the dream it, narrate, accelerate it phase, which is what all of my clients go through.
Brett Allen (08:33)
That’s awesome. ⁓
what, when you work with people, what are some common challenges and obstacles that you run up against? Obviously, you know, people bring lots of different backgrounds. have different teams, styles, culture. What are some common things that people seem to butt up against like a ceiling where they, they’re, they’re, they’re stuck, right?
Denae Black (08:55)
Yeah, I would say leadership. Leadership is typically the one thing that’s kind of holding a lot of people back.
And a lot of times you know it, you know that the hard conversations you have to have, you know the shifts that you might need to make in your team, or you know that you should be having these regular one-on-ones with your team, you’re just not prioritizing it. Maybe because you’re not comfortable with it, or maybe because you don’t know how you can squeeze that time in. But I would say the leadership piece is probably the most common barrier that I have to help practices overcome in order for us to really
Brett Allen (09:28)
Hmm.
Denae Black (09:31)
take their practice to that next level.
Brett Allen (09:32)
Yeah, I feel that in my business. I know I’m the biggest bottleneck and I hold things back. team, we’ve got 19 people and we do a lot for the clients we work with and there’s so much in leadership. What are some things that, ⁓ what’s some key advice to help leaders? Either have that epiphany or implement changes that help them.
Cause you want to remove them from the business almost and empower the team to take the reins and run and go, right? What are some, some key things that you find work well to help them with that?
Denae Black (10:11)
So for me, it’s all about communication. Communication is going to tie into a lot of other pieces in your ability to inspire your team and your ability to have the difficult conversations that need to be had. So for me, it is prioritizing communication. So regularly going out of your way to check in with them. And it can be as simple as what is working really well for you in your world right
what is not working so well for you in your world right now, and how can I best support you? Sometimes they’re gonna say, everything’s great and I don’t need anything. But the more consistent you can be when you do those conversations, the more they know what to expect. And so it kind of goes into this whole like trust triangle and helping them trust that you have their best interest in mind and know that you’re there. But that doesn’t mean that…
Brett Allen (10:39)
Mm.
Hmm.
Denae Black (11:02)
you’re solving all of their problems, right? You can take an approach to where you’re checking in, you’re trying to see how they’re doing, but you’re also responding in a way that’s not owning all of their problems. And instead, you’re kind of putting it back on them and saying, Hey, that’s a great question. I have some ideas, but I would love to hear what your thoughts are first. So then it creates this, this idea or relationship of solution focused. I want to help you want to help build you into
Brett Allen (11:17)
Mm.
Yeah. Ownership,
Denae Black (11:32)
this solution focused person rather than just being the dump all of the problems. And either you become overwhelmed because you’re trying to solve all of their problems or
you become this vent that they end up saying nothing’s going to happen. Brett’s never going to take care of it, right? And so then they stop talking to you. Right. So you want to avoid both of those. So
Brett Allen (11:50)
⁓ yeah, you want to avoid that, yeah.
Denae Black (11:56)
Communication is key whenever it comes to leadership. I think that if you do not go out of your way to intentionally communicate with your team, you’re losing them. So it’s how you can be a reactive or a proactive leader instead of a reactive leader. I see that a lot where I talk to doctors and they’re like, man, had no idea this hygienist just put in her notice and I had no idea she wasn’t happy.
Brett Allen (12:05)
Mm.
Denae Black (12:20)
Right, like how often are you talking to her? How much have you really gone out of your way to make sure
Brett Allen (12:20)
Yeah.
Denae Black (12:25)
that he or she is happy in their role? So communication for me is a huge piece of leadership, but it’s also a big piece that we as leaders tend to avoid because we don’t want the problems, right? I don’t wanna talk to them. I don’t wanna ask them what’s not working well because then they’re gonna tell me and then I have to deal with it. But.
Brett Allen (12:28)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah.
Denae Black (12:45)
If you can do
it in a way that helps them become solution focused, can be a make or break. can completely change the dynamic in your practice.
Brett Allen (12:55)
So yeah, that’s great advice. There’s a lot of nuggets in there. ⁓ What do you recommend in terms of a cadence and like how often do you meet with people individually? How often are you meeting with the team and having these conversations to empower them? What’s, yeah.
Denae Black (13:11)
Yeah.
So my recommendation, ideally, you’re checking in with them almost think like hallway conversation. So you’re checking in with them once a week. A lot of practices or leaders do have a hard time with that. And so I say, if you can’t do once a week, do it every other week. But whatever it is that you settle on, make sure that they know what to expect. It doesn’t have to be anything formal. It doesn’t even have to have a whole written document.
Brett Allen (13:18)
Okay.
Thank
Denae Black (13:37)
It can be those three questions. Hey, what’s working well, what’s not working well, and how can I best support you? So that’s my recommendation from a regular cadence so that you can keep up holes and you know what’s going on and you can kind of feel them out. I do not recommend annual performance reviews. In my experience in all of my history,
Brett Allen (13:38)
over lunch in the hallway. Yeah.
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Denae Black (14:03)
You’re really only doing an annual performance review based off of the last two or three months. You’re calling it a whole performance annual review, but it’s really just based off the last two or three months. So my recommendation is that when you’re sitting down with them formally, that you’re doing it quarterly. And that is your chance to be able to touch on core value fit. Like how are they doing from a core value stance and how are they doing from a performance stance?
Brett Allen (14:08)
Yeah, it’s not.
Denae Black (14:31)
You shouldn’t even really be checking in with them at this point because you already know how they are during your weekly or bi-weekly check-ins. So every quarter, you’re sitting down with them and you’re talking to them about performance. And then you just completely get rid of your annual reviews because you’re meeting with them every quarter.
Brett Allen (14:37)
weekly yeah
That’s great. So do you put, obviously the quarterly is something that you would put on the calendar. These weekly, bi-weekly, is that just something that you kind of have a mental note, I need to meet with so and so this week because I haven’t talked to them yet? Or do you actually put it on the calendar?
Denae Black (15:05)
So I wouldn’t put it on any official calendar. I would give yourself reminders. So let’s say you do a bi-weekly meeting because you’ve got a large team. So then at the beginning of the week on your personal calendar reminder, you can put the five employees that you’re going to touch base with that week. And then you can plan them out.
Brett Allen (15:10)
Okay.
Mm.
Denae Black (15:26)
it if it’s the same day of the week at the same time it feels really formal so I like the almost how we make it So I typically say don’t make it very formal don’t make it that’s like locked in conversation instead when you notice throughout the week hey I know I’ve got these five people I have to meet with this week
Brett Allen (15:29)
The casual, yeah. It feels more personable and like, yeah. Yeah.
Denae Black (15:51)
Find a time to meet with them and then know, okay, I checked that off, checked that off, now we’re good to go.
Brett Allen (15:52)
Mm.
Denae Black (15:57)
I actually give my clients, call it a trust tracker. And it is an Excel spreadsheet that will help them keep all of their conversations organized because a big piece of having these conversations, it’s staying consistent, right? That you want them to know what to expect, but it’s also making sure that you follow through on whatever action items. And so it’s easy when you’ve got a large team to lose track of the things that you committed to. So my recommendation
Brett Allen (16:16)
Yeah, action items, yeah.
Denae Black (16:25)
is fill out this trust tracker, ⁓ make sure that you list out what your next action item was. If the employee says, everything’s good, I don’t need anything, then your one action item is great, happy that everything’s going really well, I’m gonna check back in in two weeks and just see how everything’s been there.
Brett Allen (16:43)
Yeah.
Denae Black (16:44)
Right, so that’s your action item. So then on your trust tracker, you can see, I told her I was going to check back in with her in two weeks. That means I’m going to check back in with her in two weeks. So after every one of those conversations, there should be some sort of action item for you, but it doesn’t mean that you’re problem solving. It just means that as a leader, you’re letting them know, hey, here’s what you can expect from me the next time that I check in with you.
Brett Allen (17:07)
That’s great advice. We do something similar. We have a weekly with each of our different department managers, and they have weeklies with their team members. They are more formal, though, ⁓ but I do like the casual, hey, just let’s chat. ⁓ That’s helpful. I’m gonna bring that up to Jeff. What are some other things that you find are really helpful when you’re meeting with your clients? Like what are some other areas that need
need improvement that also contribute to bottlenecking the practice or, you know, stunting the growth.
Denae Black (17:44)
Yeah, I would say a big piece is
leadership is a lot, right? So I could say accountability and following through and making sure that we’re holding them accountable.
But if I were to try to take a different lens, another big bottleneck is systems and making sure that everybody is following the same system. There’s a really fun exercise that you can do where everybody gets together and really quickly builds a paper airplane and they throw the paper airplane and it goes everywhere. Some like drop at their feet, others go left, others go right, others go really far.
Brett Allen (17:54)
Yeah.
Denae Black (18:19)
But at the end of the day, if everybody’s doing it differently, you’re not making a lot of momentum. Whereas if you have one person show the rest of the team how to build the paper airplane, they all go farther and they all go in the same direction. And so that to me is the key with systems is it doesn’t have to be the perfect system because there’s really never perfect system. There’s not a perfect system. Every practice is a little bit different.
Brett Allen (18:31)
and
Denae Black (18:45)
But as long as you’re doing it the same and everybody’s doing it the same, you’re gonna make traction. You’re gonna get the momentum.
Brett Allen (18:48)
There’s consistency there.
Denae Black (18:54)
So that is one of the bottlenecks is you have a system in place, but are you really following it? Is everybody truly following it? That’s another big bottleneck that I’ve like helped worked with other practices because maybe they have great leadership and they just can’t figure out because the systems are not consistently followed.
Brett Allen (19:09)
Not clear, yeah.
Yeah, I’m sure you’re a wealth of knowledge when it comes to your background as director of operations and all the practices you’ve worked with What are some other ways that that clients work with you? Do you fly out? Do you meet in person? Is it over zoom? Talk us through your process a little bit and like how you like to work with clients What’s the ideal client for you? Tell us that
Denae Black (19:34)
Yeah.
So my ideal client is a client that is working through some sort of transition. So ⁓ maybe they have one location and they’re really trying to figure out how to get to two locations or maybe it is one doctor that
Brett Allen (19:48)
Okay.
Denae Black (19:50)
owns a practice and he’s really or he or she is really trying to figure out how to go from five days a week to like four or three days a week. Or they’re trying to figure out how to navigate dropping insurance. Or maybe they’re trying to figure out how to, they’re starting to think about what their next steps are and they’re starting to think about retirement.
Brett Allen (20:02)
Hmm.
Mm.
Denae Black (20:11)
How are they going to
build everything up to where they can truly be able to retire? So some sort of transition is typically my ideal practice. And the reason for that is because they’re goal-oriented. They’ve got something that they’re trying to do. And so I work really well with people that are goal-oriented because I’m very goal-oriented. And so it just works well. ⁓ So that’s my ideal client is somebody that’s working through some kind of transition.
Brett Allen (20:16)
Okay.
Yeah.
Denae Black (20:38)
I would say one of the things that does make me unique is that I don’t have very structured ⁓ partnerships. Every partnership does look a little bit different. Most of my clients were meeting one to two times a month. And then depending on what projects they’re working on or depending on what they need, I might actually go out to their practice. The frequency of that could look a little bit different.
⁓ But typically it’s going to be twice a year where I’m going out and helping them like lead a big initiative. So it could be we’re creating their goals for the year and we want to get the whole team button, things like that. So usually it’s going to be one to two times a month is whenever we’re set to actually meet and work through things. But I am always available for my clients. I tell them Monday through Friday, I draw the lines on Saturdays and Sundays. That’s my family time. But I do tell them and I encourage them I say,
Brett Allen (21:13)
Mm.
Right.
Denae Black (21:31)
I don’t hear from you throughout, you know, between one meeting one and meeting two, I start to get a little bit nervous like what’s going on? What are you guys like putting out a lot of fires? What’s happening? So my relationship, my partnership does look a little bit different. It’s not like super cookie cutter, but traditionally it’s going to be one to two times a month. ⁓ The majority of it is virtual, but if they really feel like it would be beneficial for me to come out, I absolutely will.
Brett Allen (21:42)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Denae Black (22:00)
I’m based in Michigan, but I work with practices all over the nation. So happy to fly to them if they need it. Yeah. So.
Brett Allen (22:04)
Yeah, that’s awesome. That sounds
great. Are you mostly meeting with the owner, the doc, the office manager? Do you meet with the whole team? How does that go?
Denae Black (22:17)
So I meet with both. Usually I have one meeting a month where it is with the leadership team and we’re talking about the business piece of it. And then one meeting a month where we’re pushing forward with the team. So building systems, getting alignment, that kind of stuff.
Brett Allen (22:25)
Mm-hmm.
Very cool, very cool. So what excites you the most about working with Dennis? What do you love about the industry? Your ideal client, when you’re working with them, tell us how that goes. What’s a highlight? Or even a win? Like brag about yourself. What’s some cool results you’ve gotten?
Denae Black (22:53)
Yeah, so my favorite is whenever I’m able to see them, like the results that it has in their personal life. Whenever I’m able to see a dentist who like we first partnered together, the cash flow was really low, they were really stressed out, they just felt like their business, they were working for their practice versus their practice working for them. When we can flip that around to where they have a bad month.
Brett Allen (23:01)
Mm.
Denae Black (23:17)
They’re not as stressed because they know they have the cash reserve or
they were finally able to drop down and work three days a week and start taking vacations and you know be gone from the practice for a month because they went out of the country with their family. Those are my big wins. Those are the things that I love to see because that’s the fun piece about dentistry is typically we’re one of the only industries where you can run a business without really knowing your numbers because it’s dentistry. I mean people need it right so
Brett Allen (23:32)
Yeah.
Denae Black (23:49)
What you can do when you know what levers to pull, what it can do for your life is huge. You just have to know how to make your business work for you. And so that closer my personal wins is when I am able to help a dentist figure out how to get their practice to work for them, whatever that looks like. If they want to go and open 10 locations and they want to work seven days a week, awesome. That’s what they want. Let’s make that work for them.
Brett Allen (23:59)
Yeah. ⁓
Denae Black (24:14)
or on the reverse, they’re really like, do they? need to retire in five years. I’m done. Then, cool.
Brett Allen (24:16)
Yeah.
Yeah, I want to transition
to owner, not be clinical. I’ll come in once a week. yeah, those, yeah. Yeah, that is. Yeah, it is cool. And how diverse the industry is and the different types of practices and styles of management. We see it all the time. There’s different clients that come through the door to work with us and there’s different managerial styles. There’s, there’s the micro managers. There’s the.
Denae Black (24:26)
Yeah. Yeah. So those are my favorite.
Brett Allen (24:46)
There’s the super fun. There’s the, you know, the teams that really just get it and they just are knocking it out of the park. It’s, fun. The nature of client work. So I’m with you on that. What’s a, if, people want to find out more about you, where do they go? If they want to work with you and see if that’s a good fit, where do we direct them?
Denae Black (25:06)
Yeah, so they can go to my website or they can just ⁓ give me a call. Happy to jump on a call. But my website is dental DNA consulting. So just www.dentaldnaconsulting.com. And it’s got all of my information, what they can expect, things like that. I’m also on social media. So Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, that kind of stuff. So yeah.
Brett Allen (25:31)
Okay,
great. I always close with that one golden nugget. What’s that one epiphany we can help our listeners have that will have a big impact in their life or their practice? What’s that advice you got?
Denae Black (25:40)
Yeah.
I would say have a vision. ⁓ Be crystal clear on what it is that you’re trying to build in your personal life and in your professional life. When you can truly see what you’re trying to build and how you can get there. Actually, when you can see what you’re trying to build, how you can actually get there becomes a lot clearer. ⁓
That’s purpose, right? That’s living life with a purpose. And so for me, I would say if there’s anything that you can take away from life is live life with a purpose. And the key to that is knowing where you’re going. So have a vision.
Brett Allen (26:19)
Yeah, be intentional.
Yeah, that is great. I need to rehash my vision and make sure it’s clear with everybody around me. ⁓ Living life by default and just kind of going through the motions and reacting is not the best way. That’s great advice. This has been so fun, Danae. Thank you for coming on the show and sharing all your wealth of knowledge and tips and advice. This has been great.
Denae Black (26:42)
Thank you for having me.
Brett Allen (26:43)
All right, guys, until next time on the Marking32 show, have a great day, great rest of your week, and we’ll see you on the next one.
