Brett Allen is the CEO and Co-founder of Marketing 32, a dental marketing agency that helps practices achieve predictable growth through data-driven strategies. With a background in digital marketing, Brett began his career focusing on search engine optimization and Google Ads, which laid the foundation for his work in the dental industry. Today, he focuses on building strategic partnerships and leveraging marketing innovations to help dental practices grow efficiently.

Jeff Kingston is the COO and Co-founder of Marketing 32, where he leads operations, technology, and systems to deliver measurable results for dental practices. With experience working with enterprise-level marketing clients, Jeff applies a structured, data-focused approach to solving business challenges. His work centers on integrating AI tools and analytics to optimize marketing processes and improve outcomes for dental practices.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [02:26] Jeff Kingston shares how his experience with small businesses and enterprise software companies shapes his marketing approach
• [05:12] Brett Allen’s journey from a small business to marketing
• [07:16] How Brett and Jeff’s partnership began
• [10:39] The dual appeal of dentistry marketing for Jeff
• [13:56] How technology drives dental marketing success
• [15:19] Why data is key in marketing
• [16:31] What’s ahead for Marketing 32?
• [19:29] The importance of data in dental marketing decisions

In this episode…

While many focus on flashy marketing slogans and visuals, the real success often lies behind the numbers. What if you could pinpoint exactly what’s working and what’s not to grow your patient base and revenue?

According to Jeff Kingston, a seasoned expert in data-driven marketing, the key to driving dental practice success is analyzing the metrics that matter. He highlights that understanding call performance, patient booking opportunities, and ROI on ad spend can make or break a practice’s growth. With technology and AI, practices can now uncover hidden opportunities to maximize production and streamline their marketing efforts. By using structured processes and data-backed decisions, dental practices can stop guessing and start scaling efficiently, achieving predictable results.

In this episode of The Marketing 32 Show, Brett Allen and Jeff Kingston, Co-founders of Marketing 32, are interviewed by Chad Franzen of Rise25 to discuss how data-driven strategies are revolutionizing dental marketing. They talk about the importance of leveraging AI for analyzing call data, improving ROI tracking, and optimizing patient acquisition. Jeff and Brett also share how focusing on numbers — not guesswork — can deliver sustainable, predictable growth.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Brett Allen on LinkedIn
• Jeff Kingston on LinkedIn
• Marketing 32
• Chad Franzen on LinkedIn
• Rise25 Media
• Elijah Desmond on LinkedIn
• Dental Pitch Brokerage
• Dentrix

Quotable Moments

• “I see everything in numbers and spreadsheets. It helps make data-based decisions that increase production, which is our main goal.”
• “The numbers will never lie to you. It’s more important to find what’s working than just what’s pretty.”
• “AI is big in a lot of things we’re working on, helping scale processes both internally and externally.”
• “Marketing is about staying ahead of the game. You must constantly evolve to find new ways to grow practices.”
• “We will help you grow, or you don’t pay. We stand behind what we do, proving it with data.”

Action Steps

1. Embrace and utilize data-driven marketing strategies: By focusing on metrics and numbers, practices can make informed decisions that lead to increased production.
2. Incorporate AI and technology into daily operations: Implementing AI can help analyze patient calls and identify areas for improvement, thereby optimizing practice performance.
3. Focus on building strategic partnerships: Building strong relationships within the industry can open new avenues for growth and collaboration and offer opportunities for knowledge exchange and mutual benefits.
4. Continuously innovate marketing approaches: Staying ahead in marketing requires constant innovation and adaptation to new tools and techniques.
5. Ensure clear ROI measurement for marketing efforts: Measuring the return on investment is essential for understanding the impact of marketing activities.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32, the only dental marketing agency with the Practice Impact Formula™ for predictable growth without financial risk.

With a focus on new patient generation, addressing missed opportunities, and expert scheduling, Marketing 32 has helped over 170 practices in the US, Canada, and Australia. Grow in 30 days, or you don’t pay — it’s that simple.

To learn more, visit marketing32.com and schedule a 15-minute discovery call. If you’re a visionary practice ready for impact, Marketing 32 is ready to help you grow!

Episode Transcript:

Intro 00:13

You are listening to The Marketing 32 Show with your host, Brett Allen.

Brett Allen 00:18

Hi Bret Allen here, host of The Marketing 32 Show, where I connect with leading dentists, dental influencers and industry experts to uncover the latest strategies, insights, and innovations that help dental practices grow and thrive. I’m excited to have some key interviews coming up with Elijah Desmond of Dental Pitch Brokerage, as well as some of our key clients to share behind the scenes of how we’re helping them grow and the secret sauce we’ve implemented here at Marketing 32. This episode is brought to you by our team here at Marketing 32, the only dental marketing agency with the practice Impact formula for predictable growth without financial risk. With a focus on internal and external marketing strategies to find missed opportunities that generate more new patients and help you make more per patient Marketing 32 has helped over 215 practices in the US, Canada and Australia to grow in 30 days or you don’t pay. That’s kind of our motto here. It’s that simple. To learn more, visit marketing32.com and schedule a free 15 minute discovery call. And if you’re a visionary, practice ready for impact Marketing 32 is ready to help you grow. Today we have a very special guest. Super special, super important Jeff Kingston, my business partner and Co-founder and COO here at Marketing 32. We’re going to go deep on our story today and how we got started. What’s to come. All of the good things here at Marketing 32 that makes us different. We also have Chad Franzen here again at Rise25, who has done thousands of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And we have flipped the script. He will be interviewing me and Jeff today. Chad, welcome to the show.

Chad Franzen 02:04

Hey, thanks so much, Brett. I’m looking forward to talking to you, both you and Jeff this morning and finding out a little bit more about you and about Marketing 32. Hey, Jeff, why don’t we start with you? Tell me what’s what kind of attracted you to marketing and what had you been doing as you worked your way towards starting Marketing 32?

Jeff Kingston 02:26

Yeah, sure. So I’ve spent most of my career in marketing. Initially, I actually like talking. Way back in school, I studied engineering, where I started studying engineering. I got hung up on the math and I shifted over to business and marketing. And from that point on, I’ve loved everything marketing. So I’ve worked with a lot of smaller businesses over the years and also large businesses most of my career before Marketing 32 was spent working with large enterprise software clients. But I’ve always, I always kind of had a love for helping smaller businesses along the way. So I always, I always kind of, I guess you could call it, dabbled in small business marketing. Working with actually some dentists, but a lot of just all kinds of SMEs. And so that’s kind of what brought me the skill set that I needed to be able to to work with Brett on this, with Marketing 32. But that’s kind of the story of how, I guess, my career has unfolded. A lot of my focus was Google marketing, search engine optimization, Google ads, all that good stuff.

Chad Franzen 03:49

That was kind of your, you know, your background that you had in engineering. How has that helped you think in terms of a marketer?

Jeff Kingston 03:57

That’s a good question. I, as Brett can attest, I’m very structured in the way I think. I see everything in numbers and spreadsheets.

Brett Allen 04:13

Just crazy in the sheets. Google Sheets.

Jeff Kingston 04:17

Yeah. It gives me a hard time for my spreadsheets. I manage things in my regular life in spreadsheets too. So, like, I like structured data. I like looking at things quantitatively. And that’s, I mean that paired with a lot of the things that I’ve learned along the way with a lot of these larger enterprise clients have shown me how to make data based decisions. And really, like with our clients, the main thing that we want to do is make sure that they’re increasing the production. And so if it’s something we’re working on isn’t leading towards increased production, Then we don’t want to be working on it. So numbers, numbers, engineering.

Chad Franzen 05:03

Sounds good. Sounds good. Hey, Brett, I have the same question for you. What kind of drew you to marketing and what had you been doing prior to starting Marketing 32.

Brett Allen 05:12

Yeah. So out of school. We didn’t get to this in the last episode, though. We talked a lot about how we kind of focused in on dentistry in the last episode. So I encourage you guys to go back and listen to that. Yeah. Out of school 2008 graduated, worked at a small business in Houston as kind of the marketing manager there. And prior to that time, I didn’t know anything about internet marketing. I didn’t know anything really about marketing. I got hired on because this company just needed help with marketing and didn’t didn’t really have an online presence. And that was kind of the beginning of, okay, well, let’s figure out how to leverage the internet to grow this big business. And so that’s kind of where I got my foot in the door to marketing and online marketing. I was working with a number of different agencies to do search engine optimization for this company website design, Google Ads, all of that. And really it intrigued me, this idea that you could get to the top of Google and in front of all these people, and that that’s where all of the traffic is. That’s where everybody is, right? It’s like the corner on the marketplace. And so if you can get there and get a website, do all the behind the scenes tactical technical things to rank higher on Google, the impact that that can have is really pretty tremendous. In fact, that business that I was telling you about, we started doing well over, I think it was 2,000,001 year that we were getting from Google traffic. And so that excited me. And so word kind of got out with the vendors of that business, and I started doing some work on the side with SEO. Google marketing. And I saw that as an opportunity to do my own thing. And I kind of talked a little bit about that story in the last episode. But yeah, so that’s kind of how I got into online marketing.

Chad Franzen 07:13

Very nice. How did you and Jeff meet?

Brett Allen 07:16

Yeah. So good. Good story there. And yeah. Online dating. We joke. We met online. When I started my own thing 2014 it was actually called Lifted Search and I was basically white labeling other agencies their services and going out and getting the business kind of a bonafide sales rep for those companies. I saw that as a way to kind of start things with low capital, low expense. And a few years into that, about four years into that, I was looking for some help with running the Google ads of our clients, and I looked on LinkedIn for anybody in the Austin area that knew how to run Google ads with a similar background as me who went to BYU. That was kind of a criteria and found Jeff and reached out to him and said, hey man, I’ve got some ad accounts I need help managing. Would you like to manage those and help me with that? And so we kind of started on the side. Jeff, you were at Cornell at that time. So Jeff was kind of doing some side business for me. And I was doing really good, actually doing a really good job. So I was impressed by Jeff. And so, yeah, I think it was like a year into that relationship or so I was like, hey, why don’t you quit your day job? Join me. We’ll rebrand Lifted Search, focus all-in on dentistry. We’ll go deep there. Kind of like I was telling you in the last episode. And you can run the operations and I’ll do all the marketing and sales side of that. And so that’s kind of how we met.

Chad Franzen 09:06

Great. Jeff, what was your what’s your side of the story on that?

Jeff Kingston 09:12

Yeah. I mean that’s pretty much it. I mean, I like I said, I always kind of have had this need for something else beyond just my day job. And so I had always, like I said, dabbled in working with other clients. I had, I mean, at any given time over the past or over the ten years before we started working with marketing 32, I probably had between 5 and 10 clients that I was doing something for. And so this was just another opportunity like that that ended up growing into more and giving, giving us the opportunity to to really create something. And I think that’s really the biggest piece of it for both of us is like we both had something similar going on. Like we had these almost mini agent. I had this mini agency. Brett had plenty going on but this was an opportunity to create something that wasn’t just like one person moonlighting, doing some marketing for a couple clients and really create something that can make some impact.

Chad Franzen 10:26

So Brett has the idea to focus solely on dentistry. What do you enjoy most about working with, you know, people in the dental industry and doing marketing for them?

Jeff Kingston 10:39

I think there’s really two facets. Facets. Number one, going back to lists and numbers, right. So first off, I just like people who are driven to build something. It’s really fun to be involved with these business owners doing something very similar to what we’re doing — building a business, building something that can make an impact in people’s lives. And the other piece of it is just when it comes down to so I like a lot of the — I think in another life I would have been a doctor or a physical therapist or something. I really like everything to do with the human body. So it’s fun to be able to be involved, at least in other people doing this thing that I maybe could have done in another life. Right? So it’s enjoyable on both fronts.I like the content of dentistry and all. Like, I’ve got several friends just in the neighborhood here even that are dentists that all? I probably bug too much and geek out too much over dentistry with them. They’re surprised at how much I have figured out just by talking to clients and stuff.

Chad Franzen 12:03

That’s cool. Very cool. Hey, Brett, why don’t we start with you? Tell me kind of what your day-to-day role is then as a co-founder now of Marketing 32.

Brett Allen 12:12

Yeah. So for the longest time, like I said, I was involved with sales and marketing, driving the volume of clients into the business. And now I’m kind of transitioning a little bit more out of the sales side of the business. We’ve got racks on our team who’s phenomenal. Great background in dentistry. Worked five years as an implant salesman. So he understands especially not only dentistry but also implants, which we’ve got some cool things we’re doing on the implant side to grow implant patients if you’re interested in that. And so yeah, Brax is heading up all of our sales side of the business, and I’m transitioning more into the marketing and strategic partnerships and growing relationships in the industry, things like that. And so that’s exciting. I enjoy that. I enjoy building relationships, seeing where I can add value, see where I can make connections. All that.

Chad Franzen 13:13

Sounds good. Jeff, what about you? What’s kind of your day-to-day role?

Jeff Kingston 13:18

So I run all of our operations. I guess what that comes down to is all of our technology and all of our people and systems. So I’m, I’m not as much working on the day to day of, of the marketing anymore, but more, I guess, the bigger picture. So helping make sure that the rest of our team, who are far more expert in a lot of the stuff than I am, have the tools that they need and the systems to be able to to consistently be successful for our clients.

Chad Franzen 13:53

How big of a role does technology play?

Jeff Kingston 13:56

Pretty big. Especially I mean, everybody’s hearing all about AI and whatnot. Like that’s been something that’s big in a lot of things we’re working on. When it comes to scaling processes, technology is super, super important. Being able to do because we work with only dentists, being able to do the same thing over and over again, but also customize it to each individual client so that it’s not too cookie cutter to work. It is super important, and technology plays a massive role in that. Whether it’s being able to use AI to read all of the phone calls that come in for our clients and be able to determine what happened in those calls, or we even just implemented, for example, a system that allows us to provide essentially on the go training to our account managers. Based on their phone calls with their clients. So both internally and externally, we were using AI specifically to help them in all facets of the business.

Chad Franzen 15:05

Yeah. You know, I was saying you were talking about how your strength is kind of in numbers with your background in engineering. Why is that important in marketing? You know, people think of marketing and they think of like, slogans or slogans and logos and things like that. Why are numbers so valuable?

Jeff Kingston 15:19

So in my mind, what a lot of people see in marketing is the creative side, which is important. But really the creative side of what people see as marketing is more along the lines of advertising. Like it’s important, but the piece that makes the biggest difference is not whether you can be creative, but whether you can find the pieces that are creative, that are working. Like, sometimes it’s not super intuitive what’s going to work, but the numbers will never lie to you, right? So when it comes down to it, if we do something that brings in 20 or 30 new patients a month for a practice or can increase their production by 20 or 30%, it doesn’t. In the end, it doesn’t really matter if it’s pretty or seems creative and like it would work. Obviously you want to reflect well on the brand, and so that is important. But all things the same — you’re going to do what’s working, not just what’s pretty.

Chad Franzen 16:27

Let’s talk a little bit about the future. What’s ahead for Marketing 32.

Brett Allen 16:31

I’m excited. I think there’s a lot of things on the horizon with AI. We’re called Cat is a software that we developed that helps front desk analyze their calls. Jeff was talking about this. It leverages AI to pinpoint areas where they can improve, where there’s missed opportunities to book more patients. And so we’re doing more with that. And that’s exciting. I think there’s also some interesting things on the horizon for new ways to grow dental practices that we’re looking into. It’s a constant thing that’s evolving marketing. Right. You got to stay ahead of the game. And so search engine optimization there’s new things with that. A lot of people think SEO is dead. And so there’s new ways to do that effectively. It’s definitely not dead. In fact we can show you with the data. Jeff would love to dig into that with you of like how we’ve impacted practices to grow with Google. There’s a lot of different things on the ad front of how we’re going to improve that and do that even better. Francis on our team will have her on the show. She’s phenomenal. Her way she does things to get an ROI with your ads. There’s new things coming with that too. So I think over the next couple of years, you’ll see more and more of things change with marketing, especially with AI like Jeff was talking about. So we’re definitely at the forefront of that and experimenting with that. We’re not just a set it and forget it marketing company that I think pains the industry and a lot of people hate and gives marketing a bad name. Which is why I think we’re, you know, invested in this performance guarantee approach of like, you know, we will help you grow or you don’t pay, right? That’s where we stand behind what we do. And we can prove that with data. So anyway, that’s. I’m excited.

Chad Franzen 18:37

Yeah. Awesome. Hey, Jeff, any final thoughts on what’s ahead for Marketing 32?

Jeff Kingston 18:42

Yeah, I think like what Brett said, the better we can get with our technology and a lot of the changes coming, the better our performance is going to be for clients. I know one of the biggest things that we’re working on is not just being able to get more success, but being able to prove and show that success. So we’re working on something where we’ve got a pretty good setup of integrations with various practice management softwares, Dentrix, etc. that allow us to already have a lot of insights into what’s going on. But the main goal is for us to be able to show, here’s the money you put in to invest in your marketing, and here’s the money that came out as an ROI on that spend.

Brett Allen 19:29

Yeah, I think that’s really important. And I think that’s what differentiates the good marketing companies out there. We’re not obviously the only good marketing company. There’s several in dentistry. But if you can prove with data what’s working and actually know the metrics of your practice and tie that into marketing. You’ll have a much better handle and grip on how to scale, how to grow. And if you’re stuck with one of these marketing companies out there that doesn’t do that. That doesn’t prove with data what the real cost is to drive a call or drive a patient drive production. Then I think you probably feel that uncertainty and you don’t have clarity around what’s working and where your money’s going and what your marketing team is doing. And so.

Chad Franzen 20:18

Yeah. Okay. Well, hey, it’s been great to talk to both of you guys today. Thanks so much for having me. And it’s been great to learn more about both of you and about Marketing 32. Thanks so much. Yeah.

Brett Allen 20:28

Thank you Chad again. This was awesome. Thank you Jeff, and we’ll see you guys on the next Marketing 32 Show episode.