Creating Effective Dental Implant Marketing Systems With Chelsea Coudriet
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [02:30] Dr. Justin Waters shares a breakthrough moment that had the biggest impact on his growth
- [05:06] How to attract top-notch team members effortlessly
- [06:59] The art of building winning relationships with staff
- [09:10] Strategies to overcome practice ownership challenges successfully
- [12:50] The vital role of your front desk in growth
- [16:07] Tips for effective team communication and training
- [22:27] Two critical steps that helped Dr. Waters move up from associate to seven-figure owner
In this episode…
What does it take to transition from being an associate dentist to owning multiple thriving practices? The leap can seem overwhelming, with challenges in leadership, staffing, and maintaining growth while delivering exceptional patient care. What’s the secret to thriving as a practice owner?
According to Dr. Justin Waters, a multi-seven-figure practice owner with extensive experience, the key lies in building strong relationships and prioritizing leadership. He highlights that success starts with investing in your team — ensuring they feel supported and valued, which in turn creates an exceptional patient experience. By fostering a culture of respect and hospitality, Dr. Waters has built practices where patients feel like welcome guests and team members operate as a cohesive family. His journey demonstrates that embracing this mindset leads to growth, better patient outcomes, and a truly thriving practice.
In this episode of The Marketing 32 Show, host Brett Allen sits down with Dr. Justin Waters, Owner of Serenity Smiles, to discuss the transition from associate to owner and the strategies behind running a successful dental practice. They explore the importance of leadership, fostering a world-class team, and creating an exceptional patient experience. Dr. Waters also shares his marketing insights and the critical role of partnership in driving practice growth.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Brett Allen on LinkedIn
- Marketing 32
- Dr. Justin Waters: Instagram | Email
- Serenity Smiles
Related Episode
Quotable Moments
- “Business is really how well you can have relationships with the people around you — getting to know your staff, getting to know your patients.”
- “If you take care of your employees, they’re going to take care of you.”
- “You should do things as a dentist or as a contributing member of society without expecting anything in return.”
- “Patients appreciate you more when you do what’s right for them than trying to take the easy way out.”
- “Treat others how you want to be treated. I never had someone tell me, ‘Hey, you can do these things.'”
Action Steps
- Build strong relationships with your team: Prioritize your staff’s well-being and create a supportive work environment to foster loyalty and enhance overall patient care.
- Set a high standard for patient hospitality: Treat every patient as a guest in your home to create a welcoming and memorable experience that encourages referrals and retention.
- Focus on leadership development: Show up every day with positive energy and lead by example to set the tone for your team and maintain a thriving practice culture.
- Offer the best treatment options: Avoid diagnosing based on assumptions about a patient’s finances and always recommend the treatment you’d choose for a family member to build trust and improve outcomes.
- Partner effectively with your marketing team: Collaborate with transparency and trust, leveraging data and insights from your agency to optimize lead conversion and practice growth.
Sponsor for this episode…
This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32, the only dental marketing agency with the Practice Impact Formula™ for predictable growth without financial risk.
With a focus on new patient generation, addressing missed opportunities, and expert scheduling, Marketing 32 has helped over 170 practices in the US, Canada, and Australia. Grow in 30 days, or you don’t pay — it’s that simple.
To learn more, visit marketing32.com and schedule a 15-minute discovery call. If you’re a visionary practice ready for impact, Marketing 32 is ready to help you grow!
Episode Transcript:
Intro 00:13
You are listening to The Marketing 32 Show with your host, Brett Allen.
Brett Allen 00:18
Hi everybody. This is Brett Allen here. Welcome to The Marketing 32 Show, where I connect with leading dentists, dental influencers, and industry experts to uncover the latest strategies and insights and innovations that help you guys grow your dental practices and to thrive in today’s market. So this episode is brought to you by our team here at Marketing 32, the only dental marketing agency, at least, that I know of with a performance guarantee of grow in 30 days or you don’t pay. It’s that simple. We really do stand behind the work we do, and if we’re not helping you grow, you shouldn’t pay for it. So that’s the kind of marketing company we are. Head over to marketing32.com to learn more and schedule a call with us if you’re interested. We’ll help you out. Before I introduce today’s guest, I want to give you a big thank you and shout out to Elijah Desmond of Dental Pitch Brokerage. He was on a previous episode of ours. Go dig that episode up. It’s phenomenal. He and the team at Dental Pitch Brokerage. They help practice owners who are ready to exit and sell their practices retire. They help you get top dollar, making millions even. So go listen to that episode. It’s phenomenal. Today’s episode our guest is one of my favorite guys in the world, Dr. Justin Waters. He’s one of our rockstar clients here at Marketing 32. Really a phenomenal guy as you’ll see here as we talk more. He’s a multi seven figure practice owner of a few practices in the Phoenix area. Serenity Smiles and Haden Family Dentistry. He went from associate to practice owner in just a little over a year you guys. And he’s got a phenomenal story and wealth of knowledge to help you guys make that jump. So we’re going to go deep today and figure out what we can talk about to help you make that jump. So welcome to the show, Dr. Waters. Excited to have you on.
Dr. Justin Waters 02:09
Thank you.
Brett Allen 02:10
Yeah. This is going to be fun. So in your journey from associate to owner, let’s let’s talk about that. What’s been kind of the biggest you know, if you want to tell details in terms of how that happened, but what’s been the biggest epiphany or like breakthrough for you that’s had, you know, the biggest impact on your growth?
Dr. Justin Waters 02:30
So the biggest thing that’s had an impact on my growth, you know, going from associate to owner, it’s really a change of how am I going to treat my patients and how am I going to treat my staff, and how am I going to manage myself? Because when you become an owner, one of the biggest things is that there’s no one managing you anymore. You’re your own manager and everything is going to be dependent on you and how you’re going to conduct business and how you’re going to treat other people. And one of the most key things is that business is really how well you can have relationships with the people around you, getting to know your staff, getting to know your patients. And, you know, I always allude to this or talk about this in depth too, is that treating your staff and taking care of your staff before you take care of your patients, and making sure your staff is always in the best shape possible? Having a world class team, that’s really what’s going to set you apart. Now, going from associate to dentist that are not associate to dentists, but associate to practice owner, the biggest thing for me was learning how to treat people better. When you’re an associate, you’re kind of like, you know, these aren’t necessarily my patients or this isn’t necessarily my practice. And that’s a hard mentality to get out of. At least it was for me. And when I got my own office. Now I’m the last voice for my patient, like for my patients to see. So the patient has a problem. I’m the one that’s going to be the solution ultimately. Or the everything gets escalated to me. So you have to be prepared for that. You have to be prepared to be comfortable with difficult conversations, prepared for difficult days, prepared for difficult conversations with staff. And it really comes down to just being, you know, being fair. And when you believe in yourself the way that you should, as every dentist should, you shouldn’t have issues doing those kinds of things.
Brett Allen 04:44
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned having the right people around you to support you and compliment like where you know, you can’t manage that aspect of the business. You really got to trust on this person. How let’s dig more into that. Like, how do you find the right people? How do you bring them on? How do you create this culture? You know, where you thrive.
Dr. Justin Waters 05:06
Yeah, I love this question. I love it because really everything starts at the top. If you’re going to be the good leader and you’re going to be fantastic to people, and you’re going to do the things that the way things ought to be done, you’re going to attract those types of people to your practice. And really, what’s crazy is all of my staff, I have found I have found them through word of mouth with one of my vendors or I’ve found them, you know, someone I talked to at church, or I got to know someone that works for me already, and they knew someone that was trying to get out of another situation. I’ve never really had to run ads like on indeed or anything like that, but it’s all about who you know. You should get to know everybody. You never know what someone else can provide for you, and you can provide a lot of things for somebody else. And when you have good staff. Don’t lose staff. This is a Dave Ramsey quote that I saw. But don’t lose good team members over a $1 raise. Don’t lose good team members over a $2 raise. Like if someone’s going to leave for a dollar more somewhere else. Like, don’t let that happen. If they’re a good employee. Take care of them. Because you know what? If you take care of your employees, they’re going to take care of you. And that may sound funny, but I call any one of my team members right now on a Friday afternoon, and they would answer the phone and be like, what you need, doc? How can I help you? Like, is there anything I can help you with? And it’s because they know that they could call me and I would do the same thing. I would say, hey, what can I — how can I help you? And it’s the same thing. Why would you answer emergency phone calls for patients and not answer them for your own staff.
Brett Allen 06:59
Yeah, I think you’re hitting on something big there. It’s the energy you’re putting out. Like what? How are you building relationships with people that don’t necessarily have anything to give you? Right. It’s like, what am I putting out into the universe? Right. Like, how am I treating everybody? And if I’m a good person. Yeah. And if I’m if I’m, you know, caring. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Waters 07:21
And that’s the thing is, like, you should do things as a dentist or as a contributing member of society. You should be able to do things without expecting anything in return.
Brett Allen 07:34
Yeah.
Dr. Justin Waters 07:35
And that, you know, for my staff, sometimes it’s just an act of kindness. Asking my front desk girl how she’s feeling today. Is she okay? How’s she? How’s her week going? Is there patients that are giving her a hard time? Is there patients that I need to get rid of because they’re not jiving with the whole team. If they don’t jive with one of my team members, they don’t jive with me. And that’s just what it boils down to. If you don’t get along with my front desk person, you can’t come into my office. It’s her house. It’s not the patient’s house. They’re a guest here with us.
Brett Allen 08:13
Yeah.
Dr. Justin Waters 08:15
And treating my staff like they’re my family. And it was funny because one of my colleagues, when I was an associate doctor, I would always make the comment like, I would have dismissed that patient. And he’s like, you’re never going to have any patients because you’re going to dismiss everybody. And I can tell you, I have more than enough patients. And I have multiple patients a week because I just don’t put up with it. I you know, the stress isn’t worth it. Like if I have a patient on my schedule that I don’t want to see. Why are they coming to my office? You know, and I yeah, there’s a lot.
Brett Allen 08:48
Yeah, there’s a lot that you manage as a business owner. So why add to it a grouchy, you know, somebody who you don’t resonate with or is treating your team poorly?
Brett Allen 08:59
Yeah, exactly. Let’s talk about that. Like challenges in owning a practice. Okay. So what’s been the hardest thing and what have you done to overcome that with.
Dr. Justin Waters 09:10
So the hardest thing is the hardest thing for me as a practice owner everyone’s going to say staff. So I can touch on staff. Staffing is hard. You know you’re going to have bad staff that comes in sometimes. You got to get rid of them. If you think that you should have fired someone, it’s already too late. You should have done it a while ago, right? So I can touch on that topic a little bit more. But my hardest thing for me has always been, you know, how do I manage myself? How do I manage my leadership skills? How do I manage the money? How do I not overspend? I love my staff. I want to give them everything. And, you know, there comes a point in time where it’s like, okay, you can’t give them everything, right? Yeah. So that’s been really tough. And I always try to put myself in their shoes. Like, am I the type of boss that or am I the type of owner that someone would want to work for? And there’s a lot of discipline that comes with that. Showing up on time, being in a good attitude all the time. One of my good friends, his name is Doctor Chinchilla. He really said something that stuck with me the other day. I was having a rough month last month, just me having a rough month and he said your attitude goes miles with your staff. So if you’re having a rough time. Show up with a smile on your face because your staff will resonate from that. Don’t show up with a bad attitude ever. And it’s funny because my staff, whenever I walk in, in the morning, I’m ready to rock, man. And they’re like, where’s this guy get all this energy from? And from it. I was like, I’m just so happy to be here with you guys.
Brett Allen 10:56
That’s awesome. You’re having fun. It and that energy is palpable. It’s like.
Dr. Justin Waters 11:01
Exactly.
Brett Allen 11:01
Your team feels it. Your patients feel it.. That’s the difference. Well, one of the differences.
Dr. Justin Waters 11:10
One of the differences, there’s a lot of them. But yeah, that’s a big one. Yeah. But I mean.
Brett Allen 11:14
The practices that are killing it that we’re working with, they have that, that, that, that it factor. Right. It’s like oh there there’s a, there’s a feeling that’s different. It’s like the ambiance of the practice, the way the team jives, the way it’s just different. And you and patients feel that there, they do. And I don’t know necessarily if there’s probably some things, you know, that consultants could help you out with, to create an environment like that from an operational standpoint, processes like that. But at the end of the day, I think you hit it on the head, you attract who you are. And so if you can, if you can bring that energy, then the team’s going to have the energy. It’s going to translate all the way down to, you know, your patient saying, man, this, this is a cool office. This is great. I’m going to tell my friends about it.
Dr. Justin Waters 12:03
That’s it. And that’s it. To just your point, I can’t even tell you how many patients have told me that. They’re like, wow, this seems like a great place to work. And I’m always like, you know, I try so hard to make a good environment for my team. It’s really important to me.
Brett Allen 12:22
Yeah. Well, so that that’s kind of a segue into, you know, we’re talking about patient experience. We’re talking about what it’s like that patients can feel this. Let’s transition more into kind of the marketing area. You know, our team, we can do everything we can to generate the leads, qualify the leads and give them to your team. But at the end of the day, it’s you guys who have to close the deal. You have to book the appointment, right? Yeah. What’s what’s been.
Dr. Justin Waters 12:50
Stops at the door. Right. So my job. Starts. Yeah, when the patient walks in. Your job is to get them to call and engage with the office.
Brett Allen 13:00
Right.
Dr. Justin Waters 13:01
And a lot of people don’t understand that. Even my own team didn’t understand that in the beginning. They’re like, we’re getting all these phone calls, but like, these people don’t even know what they’re talking about and all this stuff. And I was like, you’re missing the point. The opportunity lies in the patient calling the office and us picking up the phone. You can make that into whatever you want to make it into. The marketing company isn’t picking the phone up for us. They’re getting us that lead, and that’s what’s important. And it was funny because whenever I answered the phone, it always converts into an appointment. And I told my staff that I was like, why is it when I answer the phone, the patient’s coming into the practice, right?
Brett Allen 13:40
Yeah.
Dr. Justin Waters 13:41
I was like, but when you’re answering the phone, you’re complaining that this patient is cuckoo or whatever it is. Now that my staff understands this and I’ve explained to them marketing’s job stops at. You could even say at the phone call. Once the patient comes in the door, it’s my practice’s job to provide the hospitality and the five star experience that they were, you know, that they were wanting to have. When they called. Right? And we’ve really, really focused on hospitality. I always tell my staff like, this is like a guest in our home. When they come in. And how would you treat a guest in your home?
Brett Allen 14:26
Right. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Waters 14:27
You would offer them water. You would offer them whatever they need to be comfortable. I don’t know, you’ve been to your friend’s house recently where you walk in. Hey, do you want anything to drink or. You know, do you want to, you know, sit down, have a seat. You know, take, you know, make yourself at home. That’s how it should be when patients come into the practice. And it’s a mutual respect that you gain with the patient saying like, this is how we do things here. And I want you to be a guest in our house.
Brett Allen 14:57
Right.
Dr. Justin Waters 14:57
So it’s really. You put it that way. It’s simple.
Brett Allen 15:01
Yeah, that. That’s the difference. I think when you go into these practices where there’s a huge, you know, the time in the waiting room takes forever or maybe even, you know, the cleanliness and the ambiance is not there. It’s kind of like a hole in the wall, like, let’s — you need to kind of realize this portrays who you are as a doctor. And so like, if you’re if you’re not treating them like, you know, a guest in your home, and your home looks the way it looks. Yes, it’s a very good analogy. I like that a lot. So let’s talk about marketing a little bit deeper. So once the lead is generated, I know our team, we have a whole process around how we track that. We listen to those calls. We have some I call tracking that we’ve developed called call Cat that helps the team not only yours, but ours to know how we can help generate better leads, how we can help that front desk convert those leads. What’s been kind of your experience with working with our team when it comes to, you know, generating call training, front desk training. What’s that been like for you?
Dr. Justin Waters 16:07
So my staff so I had C training before I bought my own practice. Right. And I can transfer my training to my staff because I spend a lot of time with my staff making sure they know how to do things right. Even my auxiliary staff in the back, they all know how to do the cerec now because I’ve taught them right. My front desk staff, they know how to field phone calls with dual alternative clothes and doing all the things that they’re supposed to do. So really, it just comes down to spending time with your team, making sure they know how to do what they do, and working with you guys to that point of working with Marketing 32. Transparency. I’m big on transparency as a dentist. And I want all of my vendors to be transparent with me. You guys are the most transparent marketing company I have ever worked with. Where you guys can break it down for us. Just like you said, you have all these advanced ways to see leads and where they’re coming from and all those things. And that’s all spelled out for me every month. If I wanted it twice a month, I could have it twice a month. But you guys spell it all out for us every month, and you can even say, well, that’s funny. You feel like your ad spend isn’t working. Look at the data. We can prove to you that these patients are coming in. We can prove to you that they’re converting. Right? Prove to you that you’re making money with your ad spend. And I’m always like, wow, I feel like an idiot now because you guys just schooled me on all of it. But it’s beautiful. It’s a beautiful thing because when you’re able to come in front of someone and say, hey, here’s the data, we have nothing to hide. We’re doing our job. That is how it should be for everything. That’s like a dentist taking an x-ray before we do a crown. It is so simple for you guys to show us. Hey, this is what we’re doing. It’s working. Listen to what we’re saying. You guys are the experts when it comes to marketing. And I’ve told you this since the beginning. I’m not a marketing person. I’m a dentist. I don’t know how to do marketing. And every time the account manager says, like, hey, Doctor Watters, we should think about doing this, I’m like, you’re the expert, not me. As long as you guys know it’s going to work, I’m going to default to you doing it because I don’t know. And dentists need to understand that to my colleagues. You are not equipped to do marketing. I mean, some of them probably are. They’re probably guys out there that can do their own marketing. I’m just not the guy. And I know other dentists like me. They probably don’t know how to do what you guys do. That’s why we leave it to the experts.
Brett Allen 18:46
Yeah. You know, you hit on some good things there. You should have guys, if you are doing marketing and you’re the marketing company you’re working with is not meeting with you regularly to show you not, you know, just how many impressions you got on your ads or how many what the cost per click is, or where you’re ranked on Google. Or this is, you know, this is where we’re showing your ads like, that’s, that’s that’s important data for a marketer to know. But it’s not the important data for the practice owner to know. Your marketing company should dig into the weeds and say, here’s the number of calls we generated, here’s how many of those scheduled, here’s how many of those moved forward with treatment. And that needs to go back to your ads team so that the Ads team can actually direct more of those types of patients.
Dr. Justin Waters 19:36
The same marketing company?
Brett Allen 19:37
Yes. The marketing company should work with you to show you, hey, here’s how we can do better at the front desk because we realize the conversion rate is below parameter, or this is how many calls are going to voicemail during the day. Did you know that that’s happening? Or you know you’ve got this many patients on your database. What are we doing to market to them and how many of those patients are coming back. And what are you, you know, different offers that you can create. There’s a lot that goes into marketing. And you should have a relationship where it’s a partnership and that the marketer is helping drive that partnership. And you’re not reactive, like, hey, my numbers are down. What’s going on? Marketing team that should never be. It should be. Hey, we’re noticing that these clicks aren’t working. We’re going to recommend a new strategy. Or, you know, we’re noticing this drop in decline in number of new patients. This is why this is happening. So we’re going to pivot and do this thing. That’s how it should be.
Dr. Justin Waters 20:37
But I love that. And you touched on a really important point that I think is the most important thing. Working with a marketing agency is not hiring them to make you more money. You’re hiring them to help you. They’re facilitating your practice growing. They’re not doing it for you. They’re facilitating that growth to help you grow. You can’t just say, hey, I’m going to spend this much on marketing and I should be making this much money. That is a very bad attitude to have towards it. You should say, I’m going to spend a responsible amount of money on marketing, but I’m going to keep in the back of my mind that every patient that walks in the door is X amount of money that I’m paying for marketing, and I need to treat them. You know, with the five star experience, my marketing team is not here to treat these patients once, once they’re in the practice. Right. So your point of it’s a partnership where partnership usually requires effort from both parties.
Brett Allen 21:41
Right. Absolutely.
Dr. Justin Waters 21:43
And that’s the thing. You can’t just say, oh, my marketing company is doing 110%. I don’t need to do anything because they’re going to do it all for me. It’s not how it works. It’s not how it works so well.
Brett Allen 21:54
Let’s have one more question here. If you could recommend, I always do this at the end of the show. If there’s one domino you could help push over, and that would help knock over all these other things and open up, you know, have this epiphany for practice owners speaking to an associate who’s making that jump or speaking to a new practice owner, somebody who’s wanting to get to the seven figure mark like you, Dr. Waters. What’s that one thing that’s made the most difference for you when it comes to practice ownership?
Dr. Justin Waters 22:27
So there’s two things.
Brett Allen 22:29
Okay.
Dr. Justin Waters 22:30
The first thing is if you’re going from associate to owner, this is what I tell. I’ve had a lot of people message me about this on Facebook asking me my advice. The best thing that I can say is don’t get in your own way. The biggest thing with going from associate to ownership. Don’t hang yourself up because you know how to do dentistry. Dentistry translates to income no matter what. If you do good dentistry, you’re going to make money. It’s just that’s how it works. We didn’t become dentists to not make money and not be able to make a living, right? If you can do crowns in an efficient time, you can do fillings in an efficient time. You know how to do wisdom teeth or ortho or clear liners or whatever. If you know one thing that’s a good cash maker to, you should not be waiting to buy a practice. So associate to owner jump. That is my biggest epiphany. My dad told me one day he said: Don’t, don’t. He’s like, why are you doing something for somebody else? You could do it for yourself. And I was like. A month later, I had a practice because I was like. Right.
Brett Allen 23:45
So having. That belief. Believe in yourself.
Dr. Justin Waters 23:49
Exactly. And it just all boils down to that second thing for an owner doctor trying to get to the seven figure mark. We took our practice from 800,000 to 1 point 1,000,000 in 1 year. Okay. After I owned it for one year and the epiphany that I had. Do better dentistry, do better for people, do what you would do on your mother if your mom came in and was missing two teeth on the upper left and one on the upper right, and she had some teeth that were messed up in the front or something, you wouldn’t be putting her in a partial. You’d be putting two implants here, putting an implant here, doing veneers in the front. I realized patients appreciate you more when you do what’s right for them than trying to take the easy way out, or offering a cheaper option because you’re diagnosing their wallet, not their mouth.
Brett Allen 24:42
Oh yeah.
Dr. Justin Waters 24:43
Don’t worry about that stuff. Always offer the best treatment. Offer what you would do on your mother as long as you love your mother. I mean, some people hate their moms, so I, you know. But as long as you love your mother, do what you would do for your mom. And I can tell you.
Dr. Justin Waters 24:57
My mom has a full set of veneers. You know what I mean? She wanted a nice smile, said, all right, mom, we’re going to give you the best set of veneers ever. And that’s exactly how you should treat every patient. And that was my big epiphany. The big thing that took us from 800 to 1 point 1,000,000 in 1 year. Now we’re doing one five. We did one five last year and one practice. You know, it’s that was the biggest thing. Treat people how you would want to be treated, give the best treatment, do better dentistry, stop doing big fillings and things like that. Do inlays and onlays crowns, veneers do better dentistry?
Brett Allen 25:35
That’s awesome. Good advice. Well, thank you for your time today, Dr. Waters. This has been excellent. I know there’s a lot of gold in here, so if you need to go back to the show notes, we’ll have the transcript there. You can check it out on our website. Thank you again for coming. If people wanted to reach out to you and talk with you more about either your experience working with us or just maybe any questions about, you know, owning a practice, making that transition. How do they find you?
Dr. Justin Waters 26:05
So you can email me. It’s drwaters@serenitysmiles.com. Feel free to email me. I’m very responsive to my email. My biggest, one of the most important things for me is helping young doctors buy practices and be successful. You never experience the benefit of being a dentist until you own your own practice. And I can tell you that I’m a testament of it. I’ve experienced it. I know what it feels like to be an associate now. I know what it feels like to own multiple practices, and I can tell you I’d much rather own multiple practices than be an associate. So, you know the golden rule, right? Treat others how you want to be treated. Yeah. I never had someone tell me. Hey, you can do these things. You can do it. You can be a practice owner. And if I can do that for one of my colleagues and be that person in the background hyping them up, saying, no, you can do this. It just takes a little bit of effort. You can do it. I would love to be that for somebody, even if it’s one person. I would love to be that for one.
Brett Allen 27:18
Awesome. That’s super nice of you, Dr. Waters. All right, we’ve got his email. It’s in the show notes. drwaters@serenitysmiles.com. Thank you again for coming on the show. And you guys take care. Enjoy the rest of your week and we’ll see you on the next episode of The Marketing 32 Show.
Dr. Justin Waters 27:37
Thanks, Brett.
